An Alternate Domain Morale System, with Bread Riots and More!

An Alternate Domain Morale System

I have registered my complaints with the existing domain morale and revenue system before. However, complaining without offering solutions is the habit of petty minds, so I shall set out an alternate system for domain management, this one more fully realized.

My biggest issues with the existing system are 1) It is possible for a domain to grow absurdly fast, 2) richness of the soil does not affect population growth. These issues persist regardless of whether the Judge uses the official, standard rules, suitable for slave latifundae, or the official alternate rules for freeholds.

Sidebar: Worked Example Edge Case

Consider the case of Zeodare, an example 9th level Warmistress (HFH). With CHA 18 and Alluring Beauty, she seduces the Tarkaun of Aura into giving her into granting her an Exarchate with 70,000 gp in domain income, despite her low level. The domain’s base morale is at -3 from her low level, +3 from her CHA, and +1 for her Leadership proficiency, for a total of +1. She administers her new domain personally, and manages to maintain morale at base. Occasional bad rolls drop her to -1, but she never develops bandit problems. Each month, she gets 70,000-10,000=60,000 xp from campaign activities, hitting 10th level in one year. Her domain grows with her, at an additional 1d10 families per thousand per month, or an annualized average of 6.6%. As she levels up, the domain morale increases from personal authority; now at +2, her domain grows at a staggering 13.2%. By the end of her second year in office, she is earning ~80,000-20,000=60,000 xp per month. This pushes back down her rate of growth, as she is in a higher personal authority bracket. She levels up to 11th level roughly 18 months after hitting 10th. She’s back at +2 base morale, and after roughly five and a half years, she’s earning 160,000 gp per month, pushing her back down a personal authority rung. However, in that time, she easily earned enough xp to hit 12th level (actually, possibly around 13th level, but I can’t be bothered to check). At this point, she raises a massive army and overthrows the corrupt and decadent Tarkaun who installed her 8 years ago. Now with the income of a continent (>425,000gp), her domain morale is at least +1. She earns 425,000-75,000=350,000 xp per month, hitting 14th level in one month. With a base morale of +3, the city of Aura grows at a staggering 19.8% per year. A new golden age has dawned…

Very cinematic, but, wait… How on Cybele is Aura growing at 19.8% per year? Indefinitely? True, the maximum population table for urban settlements caps out at 2,500,000gp invested and 100,000 families, but Principate Rome grew beyond that limit, and Zeodare can easily invest 50gp per family to keep the growth train chugging (425,000/50=8,500, while (4d10)*100=2,200). Where are these people coming from? Her loyal followers are leading their own modestly-enlightened domains elsewhere in the realm, so it can’t be from refugees fleeing cruel overlords, and a premodern society will have a birth rate of around 5% per year, before counting deaths.

Alternate Domain Morale System, Continued

As can be seen, Base Morale Score needs to go. Allowing even mildly-competent leaders (CHA 13 and Leadership for Base Morale of +2, growth rate 13.2%) produces wacky, historically nonsensical and biologically challenging results at the drop of a hat. Instead, take all the factors that apply to Base Morale score and apply them to the regular morale roll, with adjusted 6-8 rolls always shifting morale by 1 towards 0. As long as the total modifiers sum to -1, 0, or 1, the domain’s morale will trend towards zero.

In addition, increase the baseline amount of taxes around which morale roll receives a proportional bonus/penalty to 4gp, and eliminate the penalties for inadequate liturgies and tithes. This way, a governor of a freehold levying 2gp in taxes and spending zero on liturgies and tithes has a morale bonus of +2, exactly paralleling the +2 to Base Morale that a governor of a Freehold gains per JJ p. 405.

Lastly, the land value of the domain, minus 6, is applied as a modifier to morale rolls. Those living in marginal lands tend to be fiercely protective of their rights, see the Scots, Bedouin, everyone in the Balkans and Caucasues… Contrawise, those living in bucolic abundance tend to take a rather… halfling… view of things.

The Saga of Marcus

Let’s work out the consequences of this to Marcus, a generic ruler with a Personal Authority of 0, Leadership, and CHA 13, ruling a borderlands domain. He has an adequate stronghold, the same alignment as his people, and stations 3gp of troops in the domain per peasant family. He sets taxes to 6gp per month, imposing a -2 to domain morale, and administers his domain personally. Net morale modifier is +1. He will likely vacillate between having a morale of 0 and +1, with a net growth rate of ~3% per year. If a -1 morale modifier from calamities is assumed, the domain won’t grow at all.

Marcus earns 3gp per peasant family. Some of this he spends to keep his stronghold maintained (I prefer the stronghold rules from 1e, they are slightly more complex but rewardingly lifelike; if you don’t have 1e, your stronghold loses 1/200th its current value each month, this can be repaired. I’d personally set it to more like 1/500th, Judge’s discretion), and he banks the rest at Crazy Calefor’s Cuckoo Caranvasarii. If Marcus is 9th level, the domain must have ~2,000-3,000 families, based on his personal authority. If the whole realm is made of men like Marcus (the uncharismatic sons shuffled off as captains of the guard), it will have slightly fewer high-level PCs than standard, but much happier peasants (average income 9.35gp). He pays no tithes, but the peasants do, at the standard 1gp per family, per the rules for Separating Land and Lordship (JJ p. 405). If the peasants stop paying their tithes, of course, the church is likely to complain to Marcus…

Let’s observe what happens when Marcus dons that pesky Helm of Opposite Alignment. As a Chaotic ruler of a Lawful domain, the domain takes a -2 to morale, as the peasants notice that Marcus has grown arbitrary and cruel, despite his best efforts to remain incognito. He decides that enough is enough, and openly introduces Chaos-worship to the domain, a -4 shock. To soothe the shock (a successful general, Marcus has Int 15 and Wis 9) he decides to throw massive Bacchanalian parties to introduce his dark gods, worth 4gp per family (dipping into his reserves to cover household expenses), while his troops smash Lawful shrines and repress the citizens. Total morale modifier is +1, but morale can’t rise above 0. That settles the shock, and the next month, Marcus stops open repression. Morale modifier is now +0. Marcus continues his hedonistic excess, burning an extra 3gp per family per month for a total morale mod of +3. Morale rises by an average of 0.69 (nice) per month, and after 6 months, the domain is Stalwart, converting to Chaos.

Morale modifier is now +7, but Marcus immediately stops the parties. It’s time to get his money back. Morale modifier goes back to zero, but Marcus deploys the troops and raises taxes by 3gp. He now earns 9gp in gross revenue, almost equal to a standard ACKS ruler, and has a net income of 6gp, equal to the standard ACKS ruler of a borderlands province. Because morale can’t rise above 0, his domain will gradually decline, but that’s a long-term problem, patchable by agricultural investment (agricultural investments will pay themselves back in roughly 30 months, making them a Risky investment).

However, when King Leonias asks his Senate to declare war and issue a call to arms, Marcus votes no, because taking away any of his troops would practically guarantee a peasant revolt while he’s gone. Despite losing the vote, King Leonias goes off anyway with only his personal retinue and dies gloriously. If the Kingdom of Ponesepele is invaded, however, they will prove a very tough nut to crack, since Marcus’s troops can beat off invaders and be back home in time to repress the peasants. The resulting standoff with the League of Delos brings ruin to both nations…

Muneration, Exploits, and Marginal Taxes

Some players may note that peasant morale will stay the same if taxes are raised to pay for liturgies, but the Munerator will get to keep 12.5% of the money. This is intended, as it allows players of a certain mindset to build something resembling a modern social democracy, complete with semi-parasitic administrators. However, beyond a certain point, this will deeply upset the most productive of the peasants, reducing domain morale. If taxes exceed 7gp+((the domain’s land value-6)/2), rounded down (that is, half or more of the peasant’s gross income), each additional gp of taxes reduces domain morale by 2, instead of the usual 1. In the above example, the evil version of Marcus has exceeded this threshold by 2, reducing domain morale rolls by 2. This give him a net morale modifier of -1, which will tend towards zero but can’t rise above, leading to net population loss. When a bad harvest imposes a further -2 penalty, morale craters, leading to famine, emigration, and his troops slaughtering “bandits”. Future historians will debate whether Marcus’s intent was genocidal…

Cities

During the Principate, it was not unusual for the price of grain in Rome to be double that of grain in the provinces (source). ACKS does not model this, except via an indirect increase to demand modifiers for long-settled lands. Yet Egypt was the definition of long-settled and had the cheapest grain in the Mediterranean world! In place of those modifiers, apply the following rule: for every 10,000 families in an urban settlement (round down), increase demand by one step. With 1,000,000 souls, Rome at its height would, under these rules, have a price of grain almost triple that of the base value! In reality, prices of grain in Egypt were roughly ÂĽ that of Rome, indicating a favorably low local demand modifier in Egypt. Scrub (well, swamp, really) on a river plain gives -2, and a minimum roll gives another -2, indicating that ACKS Egypt would have a price of grain of 8p per stone, while ACKS Rome would have a price of 32cp, 4 times as high. This system works!

Cities work mostly as farms do, but give an additional amount of gp per family based on market class, as ACKS’s trade revenue. Additionally, the city walls cost money to maintain, at 1gp per family. A Class VI settlement thus offers no additional benefit from settling families on farms, but provides a marketplace for rulers who wish to dabble in mercantile ventures. High-tier cities provide a slight but definite advantage to income. However, for each +2 to the demand modifier for grain (round down, minimum 0), morale rolls are adjusted down by -1, as the high price of bread leads to riots every time a grain shipment is even slightly delayed. Track morale for a city and the rural domain it is located in separately. As one will note, cities tend to be most productive (for their overlord) in regions with a low local demand modifier for grain, such as on rivers, plains, and grasslands.

Zeodare Revisited: The Crown Weighs Heavily

Let use return to the case of Tarkaun Zeodare, and the challenges of ruling Aura. In this first edition of ACKS, domain size was capped at 16 6-mile hexes. This is a sensible ruling, as horse-based messaging makes directly administering a larger realm impractical. Thus, Zeodare now rules 16 6-mile hexes of coastal grassland plains, 14 6-mile littoral hexes (my estimate from the official Auran Empire map), and a city of 100,000 families (assumed to not count against rural limits to growth).

Because all of her domain is civilized, she can have up to 23,400 peasant families in her domain. Once she levels up to 14, her morale adjustment as she administers her domain will be +4 (+3 CHA, +1 Leadership, +1 administration, -1 personal authority: all domain income is summed to determine personal authority). The countryfolk love her, but, because the domain is at its limits to growth, it does not grow. After major agricultural investments, the domain’s land value is increased to 9gp, giving +3 morale. She sets taxes at a high 8gp, just under half of the peasant’s income imposing a total -4 penalty. Net modifier is +3, leading to gradual increase in morale, hovering around Steadfast, after factoring in occasional low rolls and calamities. Not fearing peasant revolts, she invests in a peasant militia, freeing her from having to make any troop expenditure. She can conscript 100 likely souls each year, each with a loyalty modifier of +1 thanks to their high domain morale. Her henchman Balbus collects an average of 7 divine power per 10 families per week, or 65,520dp per month. Meanwhile, Zeodare clears 187,000gp per month. It is good to be the Tarkaun!

Meanwhile, the city of Aura must be fed. As plains grasslands on a nonriver coast, its base demand modifier is -1. It is situated near slightly better croplands than most, giving a further -1. With over 100,000 souls, it takes a +10 to its demand modifier. As by far the biggest market in Aurepos, it shifts every market in 80 hexes but isn’t itself affected. Total modifier is +8, imposing a -4 to domain morale rolls. Zeodare’s +4 cancels that out. After a series of riots over chariot races, she disarms the local sports hooligans and imports some hardened Jutlandic veterans to maintain order. She levies taxes at the standard 4gp, spends 2gp per family on her guard, and spends 1gp per family on sports festivals. The walls of Aura cost 1gp per family to maintain She also clears another 2.5gp per family in trade income. Net income per family is 2.5gp, much less than in the countryside, but she exceeds the limits to growth. The morale modifier is +1, leading to a current modifier above zero more often than below. However, calamities or bad luck will push this down sometimes. When morale is below 0, Zeodare deploys the Guard to maintain order and prevent banditry.

Zeodare makes some 250,000gp per month off of Aura. Were the population half as large, she could raise taxes by 2gp (since the demand for grain would be lower) and have the same morale, but she would then only earn 225,000gp per month. However, Aura would be even more profitable if demand for grain was a little lower, say, with a population of 90,000 families. However, Balbus currently collects 160,000dp from the citizenry, while Calefor maintains a monopoly on the grain trade worth 100,000gp and his steady trade routes benefit from Aura’s massive market size. Total income for the three of them currently is 5.1gp per family. For instance, if the population of Aura were to drop to 80,000 families, Zeodare could skip the festivals and collect 3.5gp per family. She would earn 280,000gp, but Calefor would earn only 80,000 and Balbus only 128,000. They get together, and Calefor agrees to sponsor part of the cost of the festivals, while Balbus sets some of his divine power aside to make a powerful set of fair-use magic armor. Alternately Suppose Balbus convinces Zeodare to try to increase the size of the city, spending money on urban growth and liturgies to keep the population pacified. She spends an additional 1gp per family per month, sufficient to grow Aura to 120,000 over several years. She now only makes 180,000 from the city, but Balbus gets 180,000 and Calefor 120,000. Their total income would drop by (only!) 30,000.

We can also consider the feckless rule of the previous Tarkaun. With a CHA of +2 (he’s a schmoozer), no Leadership or personal governance (booorrrinng!), and -1 from Personal Authority (he’s been Tarkaun long enough to level up to 14), and Neutrality in the Lawful city of Aura, he has a personal modifier of +0. Aura then imposes a -4 due to its vast size. He maintains a full garrison of imported Kemeshi slave-soldiers for 2gp, sets them to repression, and spends lavishly on festivals for 2gp, while maintaining taxes of 4gp (so that his munerator can embezzle). With trade revenue of 2.5gp and urban infrastructure maintenance costs of 1gp, he clears just 1.5gp per month, or 150,000, not even enough to beat the 13th level campaign xp threshold, until the Auran hinterland and his tribute income is factored in. But Calefor (the guy is a survivor) still gets his 100k (before the many bribes, which he much resents), and the Temple still gets most of the divine power it would under Zeodare. If the city shrunk to 40,00 families, festivals could be canceled and taxes raised by 1gp, for an income per family of 4.5gp, or an income of 180,00gp. Perhaps this explains why the Kemeshi jackboots are so harsh… and why Calefor is willing to keep paying his bribes to the Tarkaun… while looking for a new patron…

System Positives

This system eliminates the need for a separate base morale score, slows the shift rate of morale, enables trading off growth vs. income in a manner highly legible to players, and caps the size of domains regardless of how much gold the players throw at the problem. However, it does limit the amount of money the players can extract without openly repressing the peasantry. For play groups who want to rapidly bootstrap domain level play but don’t want to deal with the harsh nature of premodern governance, the official rules may be more suitable.

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How on Cybele is Aura growing at 19.8% per year?

It’s stealing people from surrounding domains that are losing them from low morale. It’s a continent-wide abstraction that works out fine in general. Limited meritocracy means the very top ranks will tend to favor high CHA, but equally that just leaves a greater proportion with lower CHA at the ranks they were promoted out of, and it’s only a soft preference (rising from a large, powerful, and connected family seems at least as important, if not more so, for example). I certainly wouldn’t assume even the Emperors are consistently CHA 16+! (I would assume virtually all rulers of 5th+ level have Leadership, however, to balance their typical -1 Personal Authority.)

If the whole realm is made of men like Marcus (the uncharismatic sons shuffled off as captains of the guard)

Uncharismatic?!? Marcus has CHA 13! He is a full standard deviation above average.

Incidentally, you may find it useful that the maximum amount taxes can be raised is by +4gp (at which point the lord is extracting everything that can be extracted), and the maximum amount cut is -2gp (because he only charges 2gp in taxes to start with).

Thus, Zeodare now rules 16 6-mile hexes of coastal grassland plains, 14 6-mile littoral hexes (my estimate from the official Auran Empire map)

Littoral hexes would count against her total hexes held. It shouldn’t substantively impact things since in II the hard limit is removed, but you will note that JJ p199 benchmarks an emperor’s personal domain at only 12,500 families. The city of 100k families does not count against any of that, yes.

As by far the biggest market in Aurepos, it shifts every market in 80 hexes but isn’t itself affected.

For clarity, for a trade route to exist (and modify DMs), both markets must be within the other’s range of trade, so this won’t affect all markets within 80 hexes - just other Class I markets. Class II markets will be affected within 60 hexes, Class III within 40 hexes, etc. (But, because you evaluate those shifts from the largest markets first, they will in turn tend to iteratively pass such adjustments down to the markets within their ranges of trade in turn.)

To respond to the actual system proposed, first I want to summarize from the prior post to make sure I understand this; there are many changes and it’s very possible I’ve missed something important for proper calibration. A typical domain is going to earn 4gp (labor) +4gp (tax collected with no net morale adjustment per change above) +1gp (extra tax to balance high morale from being a part of a senatorial realm) -1gp (tax paid) -1gp (maintenance) -2gp (expected cost of favors owed to senate and liege) = 5gp/family monthly income with no garrison, liturgies, or tithes. If he intends to have a garrison, he loses an additional 2gp/family per month per 1gp of militia raised (1gp to pay them and 1gp to offset the morale penalty from having them called up), as well as losing revenues from those families; if we generously assume he can just hire 1gp of mercenaries and skimp by with only that force in a typical month, he’s reduced to 4gp/family. Said ruler will be a full level lower than the ruler of an equivalent domain run RAW, but his income is also lower so he won’t take a greater PA penalty. He can be assumed as a typical ruler to have CHA 0, Leadership, and PA -1 to balance to net domain morale 0.

I am not sure why you’ve waived the penalty for failing to pay liturgies or tithes. Both are already the responsibility of the landowner to pay, so they shouldn’t affect freeholds regardless.

If he is in Borderlands, that model doesn’t need to change substantively (because he employs 1gp/family of mercenaries + 2gp/family of militia credits). In Outlands, he can pretty reliably expect one of the duties asked of him to involve troops, so he should avoid morale penalties there as well. Do keep in mind though that mustering a militia takes a week, so relying heavily on a militia delays response times significantly.

In terms of population growth, the only substantial difference here is that there’s a -1 domain morale penalty per 186 families per hex. This is an interesting mechanic that I do think has some potential and I will reflect on some more. Presumably this does not apply to the population of urban settlements?

Assuming it does not, Tarkaun Zeodare’s domain of 30 hexes can stably support all of 5580 families without taking a morale penalty from population; only if she is willing to take a -3 penalty to offset her truly exceptional talents could she support the normal amount that might be presumed of a domain of that size. If we look at a more typical imperial domain, of 12500 families across 16 6-mile hexes, she is going to take a -4 penalty from overpopulation which will fully offset her abilities as functionally the greatest ruler possible. The expected result then is wild population swings in core territories based on the population of the ruler - an Empress like Zeodare will see population rise to such heights over a matter of years, but a more typical replacement (say CHA +1 and Leadership) will see that population nearly halved due to more limited leadership capacity, over about 8 years before it restabilizes. This ultimately seems to create the same effect it was created to address - tons of people are appearing or disappearing based on domain morale, as driven by the ruler’s CHA and Leadership. We can accept the same solution, that on average this evens out across the scale of a continent, but in that case this seems a more complicated way of getting there. It also seems moderately more work to determine steady-state population if I want to build a large realm and then let it run at steady-state in the background. Last, it also introduces new population swings whenever a ruler expands their domain (because that drops the population density, raising their morale). I do think there’s some interesting potential in using these penalties to reflect crowding if part of a domain is temporarily occupied by enemy forces. A short term spike in population density leading to sweeping plagues is a pleasant outcome.

I do not follow precisely what you are changing for urban settlements, apart from that it is ultimately converting them from cash sinks into cash sources and inverting their role in gameplay. Under your model, greatest wealth comes from overseeing large settlements, rather than ruling vast lands, the reverse of RAW. The gameplay and worldbuilding consequences of this will be extensive; urbanization rates can be expected to rise sharply. If instead urban settlements are assumed to impact the population density morale penalty, that gets worse yet.

More generally, the extent to which this impoverishes rulers is hard to assess without working through all the details of urban settlements and higher urbanization rates (probably close to 50%, the maximum that can be supported; urban investment is strictly superior if it is made more profitable than agriculture), but initially appears to be considerable. It also dramatically decreases the viability of large field armies. These are probably a reasonable set of outcomes for medieval rulers, but I’m not persuaded it would be appropriate in e.g. the Principate.

If you do end up making a spreadsheet that runs such domains, I would be interested in seeing it. Easier to experiment and test out concepts that way.

I do think there are some issues with domain morale and associated population growth broadly, specifically if you assume long periods of peace and prosperity as opposed to the tumultuous times that ACKS is tuned for. Woad Warrior on the Discord in particular has experimented with that a fair bit and shared some good thoughts; some of that spilled onto the forums here. The conclusion there of having a natural 2 do the worse of inflicting -2 to current morale or resetting current morale to base morale has seemed a good and concise way to address that, though it is primarily focused on preventing rulers of typical CHA from maintaining high morale through liturgy spending.

I’ll continue to think on this and let you know if anything else comes to mind.

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I specify that they don’t apply because the land is a freehold, in case anyone forgot that rule.

No, I mean that his uncharismatic brother Sextus got shuffled off. I tend to assume that rulers all have positive CHA mods, simply because that is such a massive help in getting and staying in charge.

Good catch, I missed that. Still, Rome was a thousand plus miles from Eygpt–I think the standard rules break down around really huge cities.

Uh, no? That was in my prior work, which I consider haphazard. This post has no such provisions. In fact, the penalty in this post is to urban settlements, dropping morale by one per +2 grain demand modifier, and boosting grain demand by +1 per 10,000. This nicely creates a soft cap on city size that emerges naturally from bread riots. The only cap on farm size is the standard hard cap from Limits to Growth in the core rules.

He’s not training a militia, because he’s scared they’ll revolt. He relies entirely on professionals. If you assume a militia, I believe your numbers are correct.

Hard disagree. If you are acting like Nero or Caligula, you must have something going for you or you’d be stabbed in five seconds (as opposed to several years). Fully 1 in 20 people have CHA 16+, we are not talking once-in-a-generation geniuses.

At Personal Authority 0, no Leadership or CHA or governance, no senate and independent, 4gp taxes, 1 gp maintenance, 1.5 gp trade (midsized town), 2gp garrison, they make 2.5gp. A farm makes 4-2=2gp. The city costs money to build, so it must have some advantage or it will never be built. Note that a Class VI market is exactly as profitable as a farm, so you must grow through that to even begin earning income. Again, I waived the upkeep costs for farms but not cities, to achieve exactly this outcome.

No labor. I eliminate labor and land revenue both. Effectively, all domains are freeholds, but taxes can be raised to convert them in to extractive realms, at a cost to morale, see the example of Evil Marcus. So in your example ruler raises 4gp, spends 2 on troops, one on taxes to liege, and one on duties to liege, leaving net zero. A senate averages out between the high morale and the extra duty, so his income is the sum of Leadership plus his CHA mod plus personal administration. Then calamities reduce that. Typical income, after -1 of calamities, 2gp per family when ruling the place, 1gp when on campaign.

PA should probably be based on families/6 and not net income, by the way. Otherwise the breakeven realms cause the numbers to go wonky.

Why on Earth or Cybele would he give the filthy peasants weapons? He’s only one roll of snake eyes away from a revolt. Then his income drops by 20%, and that militia is now oiling the guillotine. Raising a militia is an incredibly powerful move that makes rulers rich, but that is counterbalanced by the need to be nicer to his peasants.

However, Evil Marcus can Repress with his professional troops. That’s 2gp extra, at the cost of halting population growth. Each gp of repression after effectively pays for itself, allowing potentially very extractive realms to be created if the ideology of the rulers demands high militarization (the Kingdom of Ponesepele, based on IRL Sparta).

Still, Rome was a thousand plus miles from Eygpt–I think the standard rules break down around really huge cities.

I don’t think Rome had a trade route with Egypt, in mechanical terms. There was plenty of trade, but it wasn’t significantly eroding the margins at which grain could be bought and sold, which is the key impact of a trade route.

That was in my prior work, which I consider haphazard.

Ah, I misunderstood this to be an extension of that work. Does this system have any effect to deter peasant population growth, then?

Reviewing your example was very helpful. 2gp/family seems exceptionally low, and if that’s for a typical civilized domain the numbers will be rather worse in borderlands/outlands. If the domain is a freehold, then it’s still going to generate XP as for extractive realms, but no ruler will have close to enough funds to even pay his own upkeep.

At Personal Authority 0, no Leadership or CHA or governance, no senate and independent, 4gp taxes, 1 gp maintenance, 1.5 gp trade (midsized town), 2gp garrison, they make 2.5gp. A farm makes 4-2=2gp. The city costs money to build, so it must have some advantage or it will never be built. Note that a Class VI market is exactly as profitable as a farm, so you must grow through that to even begin earning income. Again, I waived the upkeep costs for farms but not cities, to achieve exactly this outcome.

Even in freeholds, the ruler collects all urban income and pays all urban expenses, so in RAW ACKS the number works out the same, to 2.5gp/urban family, but is compared to 5-7gp/peasant family. It is the intent that they are significantly less profitable per family both to reflect historical norms and because urban settlements are a more efficient investment - urban investment both increases the population that can be supported, and attracts new families, whereas rural settlement requires stronghold construction and agricultural investment separately.

No, I don’t have a elegant system to limit population growth in rural areas, just “you’re out of land”. However, I can limit city growth nicely, while capturing the historical markup to grain that we know occured and ACKS cannot simulate.

In my proposed system, a farm makes 2 gp and a Class VI market makes 2. Provided you already control a large enough stronghold, you’d choose to grow the farms to their limit, but then grow the market. I’d interspersed the infrastructure establishment investment costs and peasant attraction costs as separate, precisely to avoid the offical case of them counting double. This way, cities are lkng-term investments, that when large return excellent profits but are slow and expensive to grow (and oh-so-tempting to sack).