I think this Bard would be perfect IF we could add back in the Magical Music power. My Bard currently loves this power, and I don’t find it unbalancing the game overmuch. I’ve DM’d Castles & Crusades games that only had the Inspire power, and something feels like it’s missing and the Bard player there wanted to be better at pure bard things like the Seduction power. So yeah, just add Magical Music back in and this Bard is perfect.
Interesting. I really like the ‘rousing speech’ flavour.
I’d still like to see something that a bard can do during combat. The issue I’ve always had (1 minute to prepare for an effect that lasts way longer than an average combat encounter) is still there.
The best I can come up with as an analogy is the Pipers and the bands that accompanied troops during the Peninsula war. They played during an attack to boost the morale of their own side, and to scare the enemy, and also served as body carriers. Sadly, I just can’t think of an appropriate way of making it ‘feel’ right for ACKs, so I guess I shall just have to be frustrated.
Duskreign’s Minion here.
Bravo! (pun intended). This is an excellent Bard that retains enough of the original flavor while shoring up the adventuring weaknesses. Questions:
1 - Is a “Leader of Men” the same as builds a castle type stronghold at 9th level and rules as a king (peasants and such) or is it a non-secret hideout where hijinks are performed (as a Thief)?
2 - Do the proficiencies listed in v26 match up with the revised Bard? For instance, if the Bard is performing hijinks at 9th level, should they have access to the Thief’s hide in shadows, move silently etc? Any spell casting proficiencies should be removed.
3 - Is the inspiration ability intended for use in DoW? If so does it go straight across or are there some additional rules to govern it?
This is a significant improvement, thank you.
‘I think this Bard would be perfect IF we could add back in the Magical Music power’
- But he could take that as a proficiency.
I like this Bard better than the current version, it fits the ancient world milieu better. Good work Alex.
1 - Is a “Leader of Men” the same as builds a castle type stronghold at 9th level and rules as a king (peasants and such) or is it a non-secret hideout where hijinks are performed (as a Thief)?
APM: He rules as a lord over a domain. I think that makes more sense for this revised Bard. We can leave the hideouts and hijinks to assassins, thieves, and nightblades.
2 - Do the proficiencies listed in v26 match up with the revised Bard? For instance, if the Bard is performing hijinks at 9th level, should they have access to the Thief’s hide in shadows, move silently etc? Any spell casting proficiencies should be removed.
APM: No, I’ll have to re-write the proficiency list.
3 - Is the inspiration ability intended for use in DoW? If so does it go straight across or are there some additional rules to govern it?
APM: It would work in DoW. It would work on any Unit. I’ll make some notes to add that power in…
Alex, the new version of the bard is much improved. I actually wouldn’t mind playing one, now. Nice job.
If we’re taking votes, I vote against adding “magical music” back in, as I don’t think it’s a good fit for the ACKS ancient world flavor. That’s my two cents, anyway.
Good job!
My preference is to have his inspiration ability be a passive bonus to all allies, similar to how paladins provide a prot. From evil around themselves at all times. The presence of a bard in the party presumes he’s always singing songs and boosting morale. I don’t like the idea of the bards player stopping the game (practically) just to give his inspiring speech–it forces the player to be corny by saying, “my PC gives an inspiring speech”) I don’t think it’s over powered for the bard to give the group a passive +1 hit damage and morale.
If you do feel it’s too much, allow the player to determine either a +1 to hit, +1 dmg, or +1 morale at the start of each day. This would symbolize the campfire stories and songs either about the heroic tactics of ancient heroes, reciting of stories meant to rile the blood of listeners, or funny and uplifting stories told during the party’s downtime.
This way the player doesn’t have to think about his bard tap dancing and singing songs outside the dragons cave. It’s foppish. It’s one thing for the cleric to bow his head in prayer and bless the group moments before battle, another to have your bard singing songs–wrong vibe. I would also allow them access to all weapons, spears, lance, claymore etc. Nobody wants a dandy strumming a harp during battle, let him swing a great ax like other men.
I actually think Bargle’s got a good idea here on the passive ability choice. A campfire or tavern tale downtime choice fits the flavor slightly better, and I know all the players can actually REMEMBER the Bard’s choice since it was made during downtime rather than during the helter skelter of combat.
As for those who dislike magical music, why? How does seducing/charming love-interests and soothing beasts (not monsters) NOT fit into an ancient milieu? I mean, Virgil, that dude from 300, Ovid, and Catullus would all have the ability to seduce and soothe beasts. I mean, Orpheus soothed the demons of the underworld! Especially given that it’s not a Proficiency currently and shouldn’t be unbalancing (I mean how munchkin are you going to get with such a limited Charm spell?), what’s the problem?
P.S. Just in case anyone gets a bee in her bonnet about the poet references: I know they actually didn’t use magical abilities, but were such good poets that they did clearly have the power to seduce others like modern rock stars.
One thing I don’t see, and wish was there, was a Bard ability (or hijink) to affect the morale of a domain positively or negatively. I like thinking of them as skalds or makars, and the ACKS domain game seems like a perfect home for a class that specializes in manipulating history as it is told (this might also suggest a competitive mechanic about the number of high-level bards in a domain). This maniplation could be poetic, musical (an anthem or parodic ditty), or simply compellingly rendered version of events.
Like Longshanks, I liked the included magical music, though I didn’t like thinking of it as music per se. Riffing on Rients: I liked thinking of Gandalf and Grima having a contest of story-telling to move Theoden, and the insults they trade are right in line with the old Scots makars.
The greeks did think music had real power, different scales had different affects, mozart himself chose D minor for don giovanni and for his requiem because of the power in that scale. It’s almost a-historical to believe music doesn’t have magical effects, corrupting youth with music is not a modern invention.
Bargle - I don’t like the “passive” bard power. I find that passive powers are conducive to a “checklist” approach to hiring retainers. E.g. the party simple hires a 1st level bard retainer to accompany it, he sings at the campfire and guards the horses. The bard as I described above actually has to accompany the party, and his power, by being limited to a number of times per day, actually has an epic feel to it - you use it before the big battle. A bard can avoid being foppish simply by having his Performance skill be Oratory, Storytelling, etc. - I imagine Mel Gibson in Braveheart, not a tap-dancer!
Charlatan - I agree with your suggestion, I just haven’t found a good mechanic yet.
Here is the new Bard Proficiency List.
Bard Proficiency List: Acrobatics, Art, Bargaining, Beast Friendship, Combat Trickery (disarm), Command, Diplomacy, Eavesdropping, Elven Bloodline, Fighting Style, Healing, Knowledge, Language, Leadership, Lip Reading, Magical Engineering, Magical Music, Mimicry, Mystic Aura, Performance, Precise Shooting, Prestidigitation, Running, Seduction, Skirmishing, Swashbuckling, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus
Notes: Disguise, Gambling, and Naturalism were removed in favor of Command, Diplomacy, and Magical Music. Any of the above 3 can still be taken with General Proficiencies.
Here is the new Bard default template:
Template: Wandering Minstrel
Proficiencies: Magical Music, Diplomacy
Starting Equipment: Crossbow, quiver with 20 bolts, short sword, dagger, well-maintained leather armor, traveler’s tunic and sturdy boots, backpack, musical instrument, 2 weeks iron rations
Notes: This template essentially restores the Magical Music and Diplomacy powers I removed from the Bard above. The net result is a character with magical music, diplomacy, arcane dabbling, loremastery, and inspire courage, combined with better hit points. This should be a very good playable-out-of-the-box class.
Alex,
Like you, I’m not fond of passive abilities. But what about meeting half way. Give the bard the ability to give a bonus 3x a day for example (maybe the ability is level related like spells?). Once each day the bard can grant a plus one to hit, to damage or to saves. He can grant each bonus only once per day and it can last an entire encounter (thus making 3x a day) He can not grant more than one bonus at a time. It requires an action akin to spell casting.
Just throwing an idea out there.
And here’s some revised bard level titles. Let me know what you think:
Reciter
Versifier
Chronicler
Annalist
Troubadour
Panegyrist
Skald
Rhapsodist
Bard
Bard, 10th level
Bard, 11th level
Bard, 12th level
Bard, 13th level
Master Bard
Hey Duskreign, how is that materially different from what I’ve currently said the Bard power should be?
1/day/level v. 3/day
+1 to hit/damage/saves v. +1 to hit/damage/saves
Lasts 1 encounter v. Lasts 1 turn
The only difference seems to be I’m saying it should take a minute and you’re saying it should take one round…is that what people don’t like about it, that it takes a full minute?
Great job. This is good. Sorry you had to allay my fears by including the Magical Music in the default template, but there it is. I think you’re way, Alex, is better than Duskreign’s, it seems simpler. I’m going to houserule the effect of the ability to allow for rerolls, rather than a +1, because I hate tracking little modifiers like that. Basically, they sing the song, and can hand out one reroll that encounter ("Feeling inspired by Bard’s heroic tale of overcoming Smaug, Robilar smashes the goblin chieftain after all). Something to think about if you’re inclined (it also makes Bards pretty unique, they’re the only ones with rerolls), but I understand why many are reluctant to use such mechanics.
D’oh. My apologies Alex. I wasn’t thinking of your final build when I was answering the above. I do like your version. I was really responding to some backers who wanted ‘always on’ effects. However, the minute vs round thing is an interesting conundrum. While the minute time frame makes more sense realistically speaking, as a player I’d prefer the power to be a round. As a player I have to guess before hand if this is the battle I want to use my power. Or, a nasty dm can simply say ‘there isn’t enough time to stir everyone up’. I strongly prefer powers that are in the players hands and not subject to dm whim. I think class features like this should be avoided. So, I recommend one round. Any other feelings on this guys one way or another.
That’s a good point, Duskreign. Since it’s only useable a limited number of times per day, having take one minute does really cramp its use - you literally have to guess before the battle.
I will change it to one round on that basis. Thank for the “think through” playtest.