First game!

Well first of I would like to say that was wicked amounts of fun! After two years of pathfinder I think my group really wanted a change of pace (enough to demand a second session in the same night).

This was our first shakedown run in preparation for a campaign in a few months.

Our party consisted of a spellsword, a fighter, a craftpriest and a thief, with two 0th level henchmen. For the first time ever in our assorted experiments in old school rules (mostly labyrinth lords) we had no fatalities. In fact the party waded effortlessly through a lot of the encounters.

Everyone who could equip a spear/polearm did so and combat actually became somewhat trivial. Door would open, surprise roll would cost maybe cost the party a couple turns between them, (combat reflexes was popular to cancel out the polearm penalty) and possibly the goblins/orcs. Then if possible the party would start making charges, and using the back row rule to concentrate fire and could usually cut the encounter down by 2-3 opponents with cleaves from the spellsword and fighter, and usually forcing a morale roll. The goblins/orc meanwhile had to make do with 1d6 from their spears/swords and no bonuses to initiative.

Is this right or is this weird DM survivor’s guilt (in that they survived)? How do you rule monster equipment - do you give them plate and polearms the match the players?
How about phalanx fighting - are the players just playing smart or am I missing something?

Attack throws were problematic as well, in the end I just ended up giving them the monster’s AC and writing down theirs, but this seems wrong. How do you guys handle it?

Markets were another issue, the players seemed to outgrow their class IV market as soon as their first wagon of treasure came in, being unable to sell half of their loot (I used buying availability for selling availability). Is that how it works?

Finally the mapping proficiency - we use a dry erase mat with miniatures, which I usually just draw myself. In that case what does it do? Is it only for games where the players exclusively map?

Other than that progress felt pretty fast compared to labyrinth lords/pathfinder. A couple lair troves over two adventures and everyone was level 2-3.

Also those two farmboy henchmen in fur Armour with three hit points were just impossible to kill off - it was the weirdest thing.

Thanks for the actual play report. Here are some thoughts / responses to your questions.


Our party consisted of a spellsword, a fighter, a craftpriest and a thief, with two 0th level henchmen.

APM: Good, balanced party. Long-term the lack of a faster-leveling mage and cleric will hurt a bit, but for low level this is a very strong force.

Everyone who could equip a spear/polearm did so and combat actually became somewhat trivial. Door would open, surprise roll would cost maybe cost the party a couple turns between them, (combat reflexes was popular to cancel out the polearm penalty) and possibly the goblins/orcs. Then if possible the party would start making charges, and using the back row rule to concentrate fire and could usually cut the encounter down by 2-3 opponents with cleaves from the spellsword and fighter, and usually forcing a morale roll. The goblins/orc meanwhile had to make do with 1d6 from their spears/swords and no bonuses to initiative.

Is this right or is this weird DM survivor’s guilt (in that they survived)?

APM: That’s absolutely right! Your players immediately grasped the right tactics to use, and were well-deserving of their victories.

How do you rule monster equipment - do you give them plate and polearms the match the players? How about phalanx fighting - are the players just playing smart or am I missing something?

APM: The players are playing smart. As far as monster equipment, the monsters should use the default equipment listed in their entry. Many beastmen carry spears, but generally only hobgoblins are disciplined enough to fight using double-ranked spear phalanxes. (Of course you can do as you prefer, as it’s your campaign; I’m answering merely from the point of view of the ‘default’ ACKS rules.)

Attack throws were problematic as well, in the end I just ended up giving them the monster’s AC and writing down theirs, but this seems wrong. How do you guys handle it?

APM: When a PC attacks, I have him simultaneously roll his attack throw and damage, then announce what AC he hit and what damage he scored. I then inform him whether he hit, and the monster’s reaction. Remember, the AC hit can be swiftly determined as [roll - attack throw target value].

EXAMPLE: Assume the monster has AC 5. “I hit AC 4 for six points,” the player says. “A miss! A fierce blow that clangs off the monster’s shield,” you respond. Next round, “I hit AC 5 for two points,” the PC says. “You find a chink in the orc’s armor and stab inward. It begins to bleed.”

APM: When a monster attacks, I generally inquire as to the PC’s current AC, then roll. Alternatively, you can handle this in the reverse of the method above. “The orc swings his scimitar at you, hitting AC 3 for 5 points.” “He misses, I’ve got AC 7!” If so inclined, you can let the player narrate this (“I duck under his sword swing!”) or you can narrate it (“You duck under his sword swing!”).

Markets were another issue, the players seemed to outgrow their class IV market as soon as their first wagon of treasure came in, being unable to sell half of their loot (I used buying availability for selling availability). Is that how it works?

APM: That’s exactly correct, and by design. It’s meant to do two things.

  1. Discourage them from collecting junk. One of the nuisances of old-school play is that if it sometimes incentivizes the PCs to pick up everything, no matter how low value it might be, on the assumption that ever broken scimitar and half-battered bed can somehow be sold. The market availability rules are an in-world way of discouraging this behavior. The heroes will focus on bringing back things they can sell.
  2. Motivate them to take periodic trips to larger towns. This is often a nice segue into the mercantile venture rules. (“Since we’re heading to Westport, why don’t we buy some furs? I hear they sell at a premium there…”) It’s also an opportunity to find more henchmen, encounter NPCs, see the world, etc.

APM: If this proves troublesome in play, you can simply make the starting town a higher class. Just wave your hand and say, “because of its proximity to trade routes, this small town is actually a Class III market”. History is filled with such things. Remember that the ACKS rules are always providing averages and defaults, and aren’t meant to be a straightjacket.

Finally the mapping proficiency - we use a dry erase mat with miniatures, which I usually just draw myself. In that case what does it do? Is it only for games where the players exclusively map?

APM: Yes, it was designed for games where the PCs handle mapping. Given your style of play, you could (a) ask one PC to take Mapping; (b) assume that Mapping is included within the Adventuring proficiency; or (c) assume that a henchmen or hireling has Mapping.

Other than that progress felt pretty fast compared to labyrinth lords/pathfinder. A couple lair troves over two adventures and everyone was level 2-3.

APM: Something that jumps out in your post is that you and your player seemed somewhat surprised that ACKS rewarded good tactics, that no one died, and that low-level play wasn’t a painful grind. I’m really glad that all of those things are true. Death will come - by sheer probability, it will - but ACKS really is intended to give a fun low-level play experience that rewards parties that use tactics. There have been a lot of subtle tweaks to the game that make a low-level ACKS party a lot more survivable and fun than a comparable low-level ACKS party.

I see two methods for attack throws: just tell them the AC, or have the PCs tell you what they hit.

The AC you hit is (d20 + modifiers) - (attack throw minimum). If you roll 15 and get +2 from modifiers, and your attack throw is 10+, you hit AC 7 or worse. Call it out as “I hit AC 7.”

I just tell them the AC, usually; otherwise they’ll spend some of their attention trying to figure out the AC from which rolls hit. This is worse for e.g. secretly adding modifiers when they don’t know they’re wielding a magic weapon, etc.

I thought that the more powerful classes that level slowly and cap early was an interesting idea, but the craftpriest seems underpowered relative to the vaultguard. At their respective caps vaultguard and fighter seem pretty comparable - same damage bonuses, fighter has slightly better attack, vaultguard has better saves. But the cleric seems to just keep advancing over the craft-priest, ending with nearly twice as many spells and better turning.

Are the ‘identify’ and detect traps abilities able to balance out the craftpriest in the long run?

Also, how do you handle detecting/removing traps in game, or locks for that matter? Thief seems almost like a ‘class tax’ on the party. Fighter, cleric and mage all have various classes that can fill their role, but only one class can detect traps/remove traps and pick locks.

Make do without (bring ten foot poles and a crowbar)? Use hirelings?

Everybody can detect traps (18+ throw) and dwarves actually start out better (14+) than thieves. But thieves are still the only ones who can remove them, everyone else just has to either avoid them or figure out a way to safely trigger them.

Doors can be forced or battered down, but only thieves can pick the lock to open them quietly.

So yeah, thieves can be pretty essential for dungeon-crawling. That said, my players did fine without thieves, and then without dwarves when both of them died. There was a near-death from a poison needle trap (Healing 3 saved the day), but that might have happened even with a thief.

Take a look at the trap example here www.lulu.com/items/volume_63/3019000/3019374/1/print/3019374.pdf

and the approach to traps here http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/p/trick-trap-index.html

But the upshot is, if the GM makes understandable traps with a particular solution and clues on how to disable or bypass them, then any character can handle that if the player plays smart and figures it out.

This raises the question of where that leaves the thief. I’d still give them their roll, over and above the player figuring it out. If a thief’s player just wants to go straight to the roll they can, or better yet if they try to figure one out by interaction and fail you still give them their normal roll without prejudice.

Craftpriest: The Craftpriest’s key power is actually their “attention to detail”. A +3 bonus on proficiency rolls for all proficiencies they learn is a huge bonus. It makes them superior at virtually anything. Particularly good proficiencies to use with this power are Alchemy, Healing, Knowledge, Lore Mastery, Magical Engineering. A Craftpriest with a couple ranks of Healing proficiency will be the best medic in the game.

Thieves: I don’t think I understand the idea of a “class tax”. Some classes can do things that others cannot. That’s part of what makes it fun to have lots of classes. Most of the time there will be different solutions to any given problem. For example, clerics can turn undead - but if you don’t have a cleric, you can kill the undead or avoid them. Thieves can pick locks; if you don’t have a thief, you can bash the lock, smash the door, or bypass the area.

The “-tax” suffix is modern idiom for abilities that are absolutely systemically necessary, but expensive to take. The original usage I saw was “Feat-tax” in reference to Feats a 3.x Fighter “must” take as pre-requisites for Feats or abilities that are “actually useful.”

Thanks for all the help guys. I had read the primer to old school gaming but obviously I have not absorbed the contents. Its quite the paradigm shift from 3.x (especially with the ‘trapfinding’ ability) and it is proving difficult to adjust.

The best example of it so far was when one of our players suddenly announced that he was going to fake a property deed and proceeded to roll a d20 and we had to all stop and have a chat about roleplaying.

Either way its been fun enough to play with that I actually bothered to muck about in excel trying to get my demand modifiers straight. Unfortunately I didn’t quite end up with the daring silk and spice road adventures I was hoping for the most profitable trade route seems to be taking foodstuffs to urban centers and bringing liquor back - quite historical, if lacking a little in flair :stuck_out_tongue:

“quite historical, if lacking a little in flair :p”

In my dark, brooding moments, I occasionally fear that this might be true of too much of ACKS, and I think to myself “why didn’t I make monster parts more common. Monster parts!!”

There’s an idea for a reverse-dungeon style game. Technomagic industry propped up only by the influx of monster parts from the infamous adventurers brave enough to seek them.

In the grim dark future of Pokeman 40K, there is only monster parts.

I once had an idea for a neutral greedy Indian trader in D&D character, trading liquor and steel weapons to orcs for furs and plundered gold. ACKS is the first game that might really support that, though I still don’t know if I’ll get to bring it out in play.

If I made my first ACKS campaign overly consistent (and I did), it was not ACKS’ fault, but mine own. ACKS gave me the tools to build a consistent world, and I promptly overdid it as a reaction against the 3.x games I had played, which lacked anything resembling demographic or economic coherence. As discussed in other threads, the Worldbuilding rules are guidelines / suggestions / an historical reference point, not laws.