Neanderthals as Custom Class

Neanderthals as Custom Class

Recently, there was somewhat acrimonious debate on the Discord after I proposed that Neanderthals can be armed with advanced weaponry by a cunning PC. In this writeup, I will summarize my position, and additionally list why, despite these advantages, Neanderthals have not and likely will not take over the campaign setting.

The crux of my argument rests on the proposition that the Neanderthal monster entry in the MM represents a snapshot of a racial class at a given form of development. In support of this, I hold up the Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, and Halfling monster entries, which all are as such, as well as the Man, Bandit (thief), Man, Berserker (barbarian, Jutting, with Beserkergang proficency), and Man, Merchant (Venturer). The precedent for humanoid monsters being modeled with classes comes from AXIOMS 2, although some of that supplement has been deprecated with the Imperial Imprint.

Therefore, since Neaderthals advance as monstrous henchmen (2,500xp base cost for 2nd HD), we must build a custom class with 2,500xp cost, the listed abilities, and no abilities that ought to be listed in the monster entry but aren’t. The abilities that must be present at second level are:

  • Caving 11+ (one proficency)
  • Survival 11+ (one proficiency)
  • d8 HD
  • Attack throws that increment by 1 per level
  • +1 damage to all melee and thrown attacks
  • Proficency with at least Spear, Hand Axe, Bolas, and Club, and Hide armor.
  • The ability to use weapons two-handed (as pictured in the image)
  • Night Vision (equivalent to a proficency)
  • Base load 7 stone, weight 22 stone.
  • As men in other obvious respects (speed, etc.)

Additionally, I will add a requirement for the following ability:

Savage Resilience (not listed in the Berserker entry, despite Berserkers having it, and reasonable to assume the presence of)

Notably, while the description of the Neanderthals mentioned the existence of shamans and witch-doctors, there is no given frequency for Neanderthals to have cleric or mage abilities. I will treat this as having access to the Village Wisdom and Hedge Magic proficiencies. As no proficiency are specified for class, even a “first-level” (2HD) Neanderthal could pick these with their implicit free class and general proficiency. This parallels the monster entries for Dwarves, Elves, and Gnomes. Note that if Caving and Survival are considered to fill these slots, the Neanderthal will need to make two less trade-offs, for net greater power (as it would be possible for the Neanderthals to drop them in favor of other options).

The class build is simple: HD 2, F 2, Neanderthal 1. Neanderthal 1 stacks with Fighter for purposes of attack throws. This gives 2,500xp, but we are missing several powers. The key is in the trade-offs. Night Vision, Caving, Survival, and Savage Resilience cost 1 power each.

Loadbearing would increase base load by a sufficient amount, but not weight. Sturdy, from AXIOMS 2, increases weight, and load limits for various speed reductions. However, it pays for the extra power by requiring heavier armor, that costs more and is custom-made. Discussion on the Discord with Archon states that it is no longer the intention for beastmen such as Orcs to need heavier, more expensive armor. This is also implied by the rules for special beastmen types, as Martial Shocktrooper beastmen do not decrease their speed, despite having AC 5. Therefore, we need a new custom drawback. I propose the following: no Neanderthal class may be proficient in bows (but may be proficient in crossbows). This matches archeological findings and goes a substantial way to explaining why Neanderthals are not the dominant species. This is less than a full custom power worth of drawback, so the new Robust racial power still costs 1 custom power. As with Orcs, their encumbrance thresholds are 7, 10, 14, and 28.

Thus, we need to scrounge up 5 custom powers. We can ditch straight off 2-Weapon Style and Weapon & Shield Style. They don’t seem to use these. Two more can be gained from trading down Heavy Armor to Light. For the fifth power, I create the following special disability: Low Dunbar Number, which reduces max henchmen by 1 and reduces Personal Authority by one. This also reduces leadership ability on the battlefield. This is effectively a reverse Leadership proficency. Piisami and Arbrethil suggested something like this in the context of a bonus to henchman loyalty, but I feel that Neanderthals shouldn’t be able to engender extra loyalty (they are working on more complicated rules for clan affiliation that would be applicable here, and I commend them).

Thus, we have our Neanderthals. One can clearly see that they would benefit greatly from being equipped with Light Armor and, say, Greataxes. However, between their social organization and penalties to mental capacity, this is currently beyond them. They aren’t stupid, however, and will adopt any weapons they can get with the zeal with which tribal warriors almost always adopt new weapons (note that the Ghost Dance, Boxer Rebellion, and Simba Revolt all occurred well after the initial adoption of new weapons).

Neanderthals begin at 2 HD. Thus, any Neanderthal henchman would need a total of 5,000 xp to level up. A hypothetical Neanderthal class with Thief skills would add the cost of level 3 Thief skills to the cost to level up, and gain the skills on completing their training. The same could potentially be done for Shamans and Mages. Note that Neanderthals will have very few of these, due to the high cost both making it harder to reach these levels and discouraging young Neanderthals from studying! The Judge may want to disallow Arcane 4 or even less, to represent their limited intellect. Players wishing to play as Neanderthals should be required to have 2,500 xp when creating the character (due perhaps to reserve xp), or to begin as a Neanderthal noncombatant (stripling) and level up through those rules.

However, while these weapons would make them a much fiercer force, they cannot necessarily replicate them. Nor can the Neanderthals replicate the social organizations that create them, nor can they provide mobile archers (except with crossbows, which, again, they lack the ability to replicate). They cannot ride horses (they are too heavy to comfortably fit Medium horses with weapons, armor, and saddle, plus I would give them a racial antipathy to horses in much the same way as dwarves have for camels; in compensation, give them a racial affinity for cave gorillas in the same way that dwarves have an affinity for bears). As such, humans have distinct advantages over Neanderthals, even before factoring in their vastly improved access to class levels.

Partnering Neanderthals offers a civilized race and Neanderthals opportunity for peaceful coexistence and benefit from the other’s strength, however, it is fraught with difficulties. In general, such multiracial partnerships should require an Oligarchy, unless the number of one of the races is truly tiny. This comes with many penalties. If no such representation is to be had, morale and loyalty of Neanderthals should suffer. Even if this is ignored, Neanderthals in this situation will inevitably outbreed dwarves, which will lead to competition over land and fallings-out. Partnership with humans will not, as they have the same breeding rate, but there will likely be less demand for Neanderthal barbarians than for Human agriculturalists. Given that Neanderthals and Humans can interbreed, in time, Neanderthal distinctiveness will in time be swallowed up by the more generalist humans.

Instead of monster progression they could have a custom power providing +1 to attack throws. Not saying it should be so, but it’s an option. Elves have the same trick.

Neanderthal Chieftans have full 6 HD attack throws, though. Also, I actually want this build to have ineffecient xp value, as that diagetically justifies why Neanderthals haven’t taken over the world. Fighting 3 is a sucker’s option, since Fighting 1=>2 gives 6 class powers (equivalent) even aside from the cleaves and to-hit. But monsters take it, and they suffer as a result.

no Neanderthal class may be proficient in bows (but may be proficient in crossbows)

This isn’t actually a drawback - compare to this text from the dwarf racial entry on JJ p300:

Due to their short stature, dwarves may never use twohanded swords or long bows, regardless of their Fighting Value. Dwarves with narrow or broad weapon selections must include at least four axes, flails, hammers, and/or maces among their selections.

Like requiring certain qualifying stats, this is a Judge-imposed additional constraint that offers no compensation to the final class (the compensation lies in trading off those barred options). That said, the increased weight itself is arguably a modest drawback, so I’d be inclined to call it even in the interest of preserving the broader elegance of the design. The class would likewise get a free general proficiency, but Night Vision as a class power comes with some minor drawbacks that don’t seem to apply to neanderthals, and can again be offset and called roughly even.

I would also note that, like beastmen, their lack of access to Manual of Arms would prevent them from fielding loose or formed troops (and, again like beastmen, I would hardcode this lack of access rather than make it something training could potentially work around). In terms of why humans win out when push comes to shove, I expect this plays a large role. Incidentally, their leaders don’t appear to get +1 to morale from their class at 5th level, which also helps.

Theorizing about a hypothetical neanderthal clanhold, with a 6 HD leader over ~24 families earning him 7gp each (he doesn’t tithe), he would have a baseline income of 144gp per month and Personal Authority +2 (+3 normally, reduced by 1 for Low Dunbar Number). If he has a natural, minimally worked “stronghold” cavern roughly 100’ long x 50’ wide x 40’ high, that is worth 10kgp and imposes -2 to base morale for low stronghold value, leaving him neatly at base morale 0.

On the whole, I think this arrangement still makes it too favorable to use neanderthals as the shock troops of a civilized race; the requirement to use an oligarchy only seems reasonable in the context of a willing partnership, whereas e.g. Zahar could’ve enslaved them by similar means to those used with beastmen. The observed fact that the civilized powers have pushed neanderthals to the fringes rather than attempted to extract value from them in troops or tribute suggests to me the explanation that they are intensely clannish (“They despise beastmen and morlocks, and kill them on sight”) and incapable of sustaining large group cohesion (that is, if you try to mix two tribes, they’ll kill each other until only one is left). They could still potentially make suitable elites at small scales, in platoon engagements and such, but in the big picture they would then remain appropriately pointless to attempt to conquer or cooperate with.

The entry for Dwarf in the MM does not list a free class-based general proficency (Manual of Arms), nor their starting class and general proficency. These are implicitly excluded from all class-as-monster entries. Likewise, it is actually absurd to suggest that Neanderthals are incapable of fighting as Loose Foot, when that is the product of the standard method of hunting used by hominids. The racial inability off most beastmen to fight in good order is indicitive of their chaotic nature.

I disagree strongly that the dwarf inability use use longbows and two-handed swords is comparable to not being able to use bows and slings at all. The only advantage two-handed swords have over greataxes is the ability to do piecing damage as an option, a very narrow use case; the advantage of longbows over composite bows is merely cost and an (nebulous) environmental constraint do to dampness. By removing bows and slings, the Neanderthals loose the ability to engage with ranges over the 30’ increment for thrown weapons, unless they suffer the penalties of the Slow trait. I picked the weapons listed with careful forethought to be more crippling than the Dwarf’s minor losses.

Lastly, Zahar could not have enslaved Neanderthals as they did the beastmen, because the beastmen have mental backdoors that allow Zaharan Darklord’s Dominate Beastmen ability and the Ancient Pacts racial ability to work.

With enslaving Neanderthals being a bad idea, you are left with living along with them fairly. But this inevitably leads to conflict over the same ecological niche, or to mixed breeding with human. IRL Neanderthals mixed into a evanescent trace. Dwarf leaders have probably tried working with Neanderthals, but had their “junior” partners outbreed them. I find this sufficient to explain why Neanderthal troops are not common.

Nice work on the clanhold, though I think the chieftain would tithe. The shaman may only have Village Wisdom, but he’s getting 24gp. And the chieftain needs to keep up an Outlands garrison (clanhold warriors don’t give militia value), plus they are on marginal land, say 4gp land value, so net income 3gp per, 72gp income, and sky-high personal authority. You are also off-base on the stronghold value. The Neanderthals only need to hold enough territory for 24 families. That is maybe 25% of a six-mile hex. Even in Outlands, 10kgp is enough stronghold for no penalty. As a result, their population will increase rapidly… but the Vagaries of Incursion will be brutal, crushing them back down.

The entry for Dwarf in the MM does not list a free class-based general proficency (Manual of Arms), nor their starting class and general proficency.

That is accurate in the particular, but only because it doesn’t significantly impact their monster entry. If you compare to e.g. “Man, Berserker”, their free general proficiency (Seafaring) is listed, as is Bargaining for “Man, Merchant”.

Likewise, it is actually absurd to suggest that Neanderthals are incapable of fighting as Loose Foot, when that is the product of the standard method of hunting used by hominids.

Not at all? There may be superficial similarities in the initial formation, but primitive hunters aren’t applying military drill and formation fighting any more than wolves or similar pack hunters are (which are irregular). Being able to perform seemingly similar tactics as individuals does not enable organizations of neanderthals to do so at scale as cohesive units.

On the comparison to dwarves, the magnitude of the restriction is irrelevant; it is structurally not qualifying for a drawback. You could require that a custom race trade away all weapons down to Restricted, and that would still be worth no powers (the powers would come from actually trading away the weapons in question, not from being required to). It’s not a drawback on any particular racial class, it’s just a constraint on class building within that race.

Lastly, Zahar could not have enslaved Neanderthals as they did the beastmen, because the beastmen have mental backdoors that allow Zaharan Darklord’s Dominate Beastmen ability and the Ancient Pacts racial ability to work.

Zahar didn’t need Dominate Beastmen or Ancient Pacts to dominate beastmen; those are a result of their dominance more than the cause (fundamentally so, inasmuch as the classes and racial powers naturally had to be developed after beastmen were created). Coercion, cultural manipulation, enchantments, and simple fear are all plenty sufficient.

Again, inasmuch as various realms have had the opportunity to subdue neanderthals as allies or subjects, and have chosen instead to push them to the fringes, it seems natural to conclude that neanderthals would be poorly suited to such roles. The utter lack of large neanderthal societies supports my conclusion.

A shaman with only Village Wisdom is unable to perform the duties of a chaplain and so hardly seems worthy of a tithe. Without a tithe, the note on marginal land is interesting, but doesn’t actually impact personal authority. It did not occur to me to assume a sub-hex domain but that does seem a good proposal; a typical cavern holding can be shrunk appropriately to maintain normal morale.

If you say the Survival and Caving are class/general proficiency picks instead of mandatory options, that actually means that Neanderthals need to trade off fewer powers. They might be able to wear Medium Armor!

Neanderthals are Sapient Neutral creatures. Not Animal wolves. Not Chaotic beastmen. Wolves can’t learn anything other than Irregular because they are subsapient. Orcs can’t learn anything else because they are insane psychos. Heck, even hobgoblins can learn Loose Foot, automatically, even. Human infantry doesn’t have a minimum INT or WIL to learn Loose Foot. This is a stupid hill to die on.

No, actually, the magnitude of the restriction is relevant. Dwarven Vaultguards recieve no class powers from trading away two-handed swords and longbows, because they have enough other options that that isn’t a loss. Neanderthal the race is required to trade away bows and slings. Neanderthal the class does, to pay for the Robust class power.

I just plain disagree with you on the Zaharans, and will continue to in absence of Archon interfering. If the Zaharans hadn’t been able to develop Ancient Pacts and Dominate Beastmen, they would have abandoned crossbreeding after making the Kobolds. Remember that, unlike the Elves, they don’t have the Teacher egging them on to make crossbreeds, have examples of crossbreeding going badly, and don’t have the Teacher sabotaging any research on dominating beastmen (which he would have been doing to elves, since he wanted them to be overthrown).

And no, it is not natural to conclude that Neanderthals would suck as light infantry in organized societies simply because organized societies shun them. Rather, slave-soldiers inevitably revolt (unless mind-controlled), and coexistence leads to either mixing (which happened IRL) or competition.

Village Wisdom can give Cure Minor, Call Woodland Creature, Mother’s Ministry, and Remedy. That’s some shaman material. The shaman can also grab Theology with his other proficency, and collect and use divine power (to bless hunts and that’s it, but he can do it).

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If you say the Survival and Caving are class/general proficiency picks instead of mandatory options, that actually means that Neanderthals need to trade off fewer powers. They might be able to wear Medium Armor!

Not at all, I’m not sure why you’d conclude that.

No, actually, the magnitude of the restriction is relevant.

I’m not sure what you’re basing such a drawback on then, given it is unprecedented within the system and doesn’t match the broader framework.

On chaplains, the important constraint is the lack of divine spellcasting, not the lack of Theology proficiency.

You are welcome to disagree on the other points, certainly. In my view, neanderthals are an uncivilized and barbaric people, and “insane psychos” comparable to beastmen seems a basically reasonable characterization.

You are welcome to treat Neanderthals as uncivilized and barbaric, comparable to beastmen. However, their Neutral alignment goes against that for the official, published material.

As for the no-bows no-slings drawback, it is effectively identical to trading down All weapon proficiencies to Broad. Whereas just losing two handed swords and longbows isn’t a full proficency pick. Bear in mind that this cost is in addition to paying a power for the equivelent of Loadbearing, it is just the extra cost for the slightly better Sturdy.

I built these Neanderthals as trading off custom powers for Survival and Caving. If they use their free picks for them, then they don’t need to make those tradeoffs.

You are welcome to treat Neanderthals as uncivilized and barbaric, comparable to beastmen. However, their Neutral alignment goes against that for the official, published material.

I’m not aware of anything tying alignment to civilizational status, though I’d be very interested in being corrected on that. Chaotic thrassians seem capable of high civilization, while Neutral centaurs and tritons do not (though in the latter case it is plausible it exists elsewhere, if not likely given AE history).

As for the no-bows no-slings drawback, it is effectively identical to trading down All weapon proficiencies to Broad.

Maybe I misunderstand what you’re doing, then. As I understood it, the proposed race would require Neanderthal races to trade off bows and slings, and get a 1 power refund for that requirement in addition to whatever power is gained for actually trading it away. If you are merely pre-emptively trading away bows and slings, on a chassis that is essentially required to be F2+, that is much more reasonable; it does get around the 250 XP surcharge that would otherwise be entailed in trading down weapons, but it’s much more reasonable (I would probably be inclined to permit that if it was a requirement to trade away all missile weapons, which is quite punitive and which most classes would like to avoid doing, and seems clearly different from e.g. a class trading away bludgeons or axes or something else that has a large overlap with retained types).

This is a disagreement on the broader principle of the matter; as I noted initially, I think it’s reasonable to characterize the additional weight conferred by Sturdy as a drawback in its own right (unable to ride normal mounts, occupying extra room on ships, etc.), and don’t think that needs to call for an actual change in how the class is built.

I built these Neanderthals as trading off custom powers for Survival and Caving. If they use their free picks for them, then they don’t need to make those tradeoffs.

I think you made the right call in doing so. It would not be unreasonable to count one of them as a 1st level general proficiency choice (Brigands and Patrollers and such do so), but I think it more rigorous to avoid where possible.

Alright, I think we are pretty much in agreement, then. I don’t think Neanderthals are capable of civilization, just Loose Foot. My arguement is that the other creatures who are required to take Irregular formations are either of animal intelligence (and so unable to coordinate via verbal commands on more than bellowing), or a insane Chaotic monsters, like Orcs. Even the definitely Chaotic Hobgoblins are capable of more complex formations, and I would say the Thrassians are too (though not the lizardmen). Centaurs are certainly Loose Mounted in my book.

I agree that double-dipping trading off bows and slings would be bad. If I made a Neanderthal class with reduced weapon proficencies, I’d definitely require them to trade off bows&slings in addition to dropping the requisite number of options. It is just that the race and class are so tightly linked in this case that lets me treat it as essentially a half of a custom drawback. As you say, Sturdy’s extra weight is likely drawback enough, but I also wanted to take away bows specifically to limit Neanderthals, so I looked for an option to ditch them at a bad price.

Overall, I think my build could make useful cohorts, but that the civilized races generally prefer to either use their own soldiers or make custom beastmen. With Dwarven civilization on the slow decline, they may soon loose enough of their pride to try to utilize the Neanderthals, but that could well end up blowing up in their own faces, which is why (aside from tradition), they haven’t done it already.