•An engaged creature may not move except as part of an overrun or to perform defensive movement or take an action in lieu of moving, such as standing up from being knocked down, sheathing one weapon and drawing another, readying or loosing a shield, picking an item off the ground, or retrieving an item from a pack or sack.
Which, now that I read it more closely, might just have been me being confused by the compound sentence structure. I can’t tell if the Conditions engaged is saying “You may not move except as part of defensive movement or overrun; you also may not take an action in lieu of moving” or if it’s saying “You may not move except as part of defensive movement or overrun; another exception is actions in lieu of moving, which you can still take”.
(In retrospect, it is also possible that I had misunderstood the second sentence of your original post in this thread! I had interpreted it to mean that you can’t stand up while engaged ever, because doing so is always a movement-replacement, but maybe you meant that you can replace your action instead.)
[quote="Aryxymaraki"]
In summary, I don't know what the rule is.
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Same. I wasn't suggesting the Conditions document was revising the RAW. Only that it's still not clear to me in the RAW nor in the Conditions document (which I read right away, hopeful I'd gain an understanding).
Alex:" These should be understood as presenting three alternatives: stand up; crawl; or attack while prone."
Since you can't move while engaged, as I understand it, this sentence suggested to me that you can crawl 5' away from engagement and therefore crawl is some kind of action distinct from moving. Which both seems odd and which isn't clearly supported in the text.
And I just want to know if that is the case.
In short, I want to know all the options a character who is both prone and engaged has. Ideally clarified in the final Conditions document which I intend to print out for table reference. Thanks for your patience.
OK. I thought about this a bit. Here's what I've come up. Please note that that this isn't rules-as-written but rather would be intended to be an improvement:
ENGAGED
An engaged creature may not move except (1) as part of an overrun, (2) to perform defensive movement, or (3) to take one of the following actions in lieu of moving: sheathing one weapon and drawing another, readying or loosing a shield, picking an item off the ground, or retrieving an item from a pack or sack.
The condition ends immediately when the creature is no longer within 5’ of an opponent that is not helpless.
PRONE
A prone creature can move, but only to crawl at a movement rate of 5’, to take an action in lieu of moving, or to end the condition by using an action in lieu of moving to stand up.
A prone creature that is engaged is subject to the movement restrictions of being engaged, so it can only crawl if using defensive movement, and cannot stand up in lieu of moving.
A prone creature can attack, but suffers a -4 penalty on its attack throws. A prone creature can stand up in lieu of attacking.
A prone creature can be backstabbed by creatures capable of doing so.
Attack throws against prone creatures gain a +2 bonus, or a +4 bonus if the attacker backstabs the stunned creature. The stunned creature is dealt the attack’s ordinary damage, or the attack’s ordinary damage multiplied by two or more from backstab.
The conditions is ended immediately when the creature stands up.
It's certainly pretty clear on intent (namely, that being prone in combat means you're pretty much doomed).
I wonder if being able to stand up while engaged might be a good use of the Acrobatics proficiency? The whole "kip up" thing is a pretty common martial arts technique and is primarily intended to prevent the situation being described here.
OK. I thought about this a bit. Here's what I've come up. Please note that that this isn't rules-as-written but rather would be intended to be an improvement:
ENGAGED
An engaged creature may not move except (1) as part of an overrun, (2) to perform defensive movement, or (3) to take one of the following actions in lieu of moving: sheathing one weapon and drawing another, readying or loosing a shield, picking an item off the ground, or retrieving an item from a pack or sack.
The condition ends immediately when the creature is no longer within 5’ of an opponent that is not helpless.
PRONE
A prone creature can move, but only to crawl at a movement rate of 5’, to take an action in lieu of moving, or to end the condition by using an action in lieu of moving to stand up.
A prone creature that is engaged is subject to the movement restrictions of being engaged, so it can only crawl if using defensive movement, and cannot stand up in lieu of moving.
A prone creature can attack, but suffers a -4 penalty on its attack throws. A prone creature can stand up in lieu of attacking.
A prone creature can be backstabbed by creatures capable of doing so.
Attack throws against prone creatures gain a +2 bonus, or a +4 bonus if the attacker backstabs the stunned creature. The stunned creature is dealt the attack’s ordinary damage, or the attack’s ordinary damage multiplied by two or more from backstab.
The conditions is ended immediately when the creature stands up.
Thoughts?
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The backstab section twice refers to a stunned creature instead of a prone creature. Other than that, it seems to flow properly.
Shouldn't Acrobatics to jump behind your opponent also be on the list on things you can do while in melee? Otherwise Acrobatics seems pretty useless to me. Or am I overlooking something?