Lizardman Speed Inconsistency

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So, I’ve noticed a thing in the II. The revised rulebook lists the expedition speed of lizardmen foot armies as 12 miles per day, while the MM gives an expedition speed of 24 miles per day, which is consistent with their listed speed of 40’/120’. The troglodyte MM entry has the same 40’/120’/24 miles. However, the related Thrassian entry gives a ground move of 20’/60’/12 miles. Lairs & Encounters, meanwhile, gives ground move of 60’ for lizardmen, 120’ for troglodytes, and 60’ for Thrassians! To make matters more confusing, while all sources that state Lizardman swim speed are consistent at 120’, Lair & Encounters give Thrassian swim speeds of 120’ and fly of 30’, while the MM gives 120’ fly and 30’ swim!

So, how fast are lizardmen? Some monsters were changed between editions, like the reducation of 60’ infravision to 30’ lightless vision, is this an example thereof? My inclination would be to say that lizardmen move at 60’, same as they always have in B/X, and the MM erroneously used the default value while the RR got it right, but perhaps there were lore reasons why this change was made and the RR accidentally used the old spreadsheet of unit values.

The reason I got with slower lizardman, btw, is to let PCs run away from them. But I’m interested in the lore answer. Also, what are the base speeds (unarmored) of kobolds and goblins? They were 60’ and 90’ in AXIOMS 2, but with the changes to differently-sized creature armors in AXIOMS 9, I am left wondering. For that matter, if a hobgoblin wears scale, shield, and weapon, does their speed drop to 75’, post-AXIOMS 9? Does an orc’s speed drop to 90’?

Been workshopping a Beastman Combined Arms Coalition Army, these things have come up.

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Hmm, will have to dig into this more, but generally I’m inclined to trust L&E on this. Lizardmen at SPD 60’, SWIM 120’; thrassians at SWIM 120’ and FLY 30’. It’s possible this was intentionally changed, but I don’t recall it being discussed.

Hobgoblins who are encumbered would drop to SPD 67.5’ (3/4ths base), which I would round to 70’. An encumbered orc would have SPD 90’, but they wear pretty light armor and thus avoid that. Goblins have only a 3 stone normal load, which at 4 1/6 stone encumbrance suggests they could potentially have a base speed as high as about 80’; maybe it’s 90’ and their listed SPD got rounded down. Kobolds at base speed 60’ works fine with their encumbrance.

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That’s an error. Lizardman are 20’/60; Thrassians fly at 10’/30’.

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AXIOMS 2 implies that creatures with a move speed of less than 120’ round their speed to the nearest 30’. 30’ exploration speed is also 6 miles (one hex) expedition speed, so it makes sense as a way to keep the bookkeeping simple.

Thanks!