Do these stack? Let’s say I had a ring of protection +2, cloak of protection +2, plate armor +2, shield +2. What would my AC be?
Plate armor +2 = AC (6+2) 8
- Shield +2 = +3
- Ring + 2
- Cloak +2 (ACKS CR p.221 Cloak stacks with Ring)
= 8 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 15 woops
Why stop there?
DEX +3 & Plate +3 & Shield +3 & Weapon & Shield Style & Ring +3 & Cloak +3 & Protection from Evil = 24. Is there any way to get better than that?
Even Moby Dick (sperm whale, attack throw -4+) needs a 20+ to hit you. That would make sense for max attack throw vs max AC in a bounded system.
If your class could cast Shimmer you would have a -2 to enemy to hit rolls as well…
Blade Dancer-14 (AC +3)
Bracers of Armor (base AC 7)
DEX 18 (AC +3)
Swashbuckling (AC +3 at Level 13)
Shield +3 and Fighting Style (Weapon and Shield) (AC +5)
Ring of Protection +3 (AC +3)
Cloak of Protection +3 (AC +3)
Net AC 27.
Some spells can improve things, but I’ve left them out.
Fighter-14 (throw 1+)
STR 18 (+3 to hit)
Sword +3 (+3 to hit)
Fighting Style (Single Weapon) (+1 to hit)
Berserkergang (+2 to hit)
Net attack throw -8 (hits AC 27 on a 19-20)
Some spells can improve things, but not by quite as much as the blade dancer’s spells can, and it requires more spells to get to that point - a fighter facing a casting blade dancer is better off with dispel magic than trying to match bonus for bonus.
If the fighter was dual wielding +3 swords he would have +4 more to hit. +1 for dual wielding, +3 because you can add both weapon’s enhancement to the attack throw (but not damage).
Alternatively, since a 20 is always a hit, you could hire some 50,000+ crossbowmen to fight the blade dancer (yes, my players and I discuss these ridiculous scenarios at length).
My copy of ACKS says:
“A bladedancer may wield a weapon in each hand, or fight with a two-handed weapon, but may not resort to shields.”
Unless I’ve missed some errata, that knocks her back down to 22.
That is correct: swap out “blade dancer 14” with “thrassian gladiator 11”. That drops her to AC 26 (swashbuckling only grants +2 at level 11). And of course, thrassian gladiators aren’t even in the core book, so I’m abusing splatbooks at that point ;-).
Heh. But I think to really be abusing the Companion, you would have to create a custom class optimized for AC. Which we could then pit against one optimized for attack throw (Fighting 4, everything else 0!). Ugh. I’ll leave that one to you, Mathman. 
So, we’re of the consensus here that magical rings and cloaks AC improvement stacks with everything else, including magical armor? I think it’s AD&D that doesn’t stack with armor.
These all stack. Your AC would be (2)+(2)+(6+2)+(1+2)=15.
If you are going to compare the maximum possible AC, to be fair you need to compare it against maximum possible attack throw.
14th level Bladedancer
Bracers of Armor (base AC 7)
DEX 18 (AC +3)
Bladedancer AC Bonus (AC +3)
Swashbuckling (AC +3 at Level 13)
Ring of Protection +3 (AC +3)
Cloak of Protection +3 (AC +3)
Shimmer (AC +2)
= AC 24
14th level Fighter, Attack Throw 1+
STR 18 +3, Attack Throw -2
Fighting with Two Weapons, Attack Throw -3
Two Weapon Fighting Proficiency, Attack Throw -4
+3 weapon in right hand, Attack Throw -7
+3 weapon in left hand, Attack Throw -10
Berserkergang, Attack Throw -12
Bless, Attack Throw -13
Inspired Courage, Attack Throw -14
The fighter will hit on an attack throw of 10+.
Yeah…this and unmissable saves is why I don’t let rings and cloaks stack…
Assuming I’m reading their restriction right seems like a Dwarven Fury can have the best AC before spells:
Runes +6
Bracer +7
Ring +3
Cloak +4
Dexterity +3
Swashbuckling +2
Shield +3 +4
Shield Style +1
Total: 29-2 berserk still leaves 27
Yeah, I’m actually starting to have issues with this. The min-maxing of the 14th Level Fighter might work out in theory, but monsters don’t typically have the two-weapon fighting of two magical +3 swords, the STR bonuses to hit, etc. etc.
Right now, my super high level PCs are in the AC 12-15 range and monsters with similar HD but without proficiencies, magical weapons, etc. etc. have little-to-no chance of hitting the PCs. At least, not in any meaningful percentage of time.
Does anyone know what the Rules Cyclopedia rule was for this? Thinking about house-ruling it.
The real problem is, Alex is calculating shit like magical weapons, bonuses from STR, bonuses from proficiencies, bonuses from two-weapon fighting, etc. etc. This shit doesn’t coincide with monster attack values.
They don’t get STR bonus, proficiencies, magical weapons in most cases, two-weapon fighting bonuses (instead getting multiple attacks), etc.
So, is there an alternate option for giving monsters a +X on an attack to help offset without having to do a fucking 3E method of statting out custom proficiencies and shit for each monster?
What level are your super-high level PCs? A 9HD monster hits AC15 15% of the time; a 10-11HD monster hits AC15 20% of the time; a 12-13HD monster hits AC15 25% of the time; and a 14HD monster hits AC15 30% of the time. Are those not meaningful percentage chances to hit someone with an above average AC?
My PCs are right in the 8-11th level range. And, no, I don’t consider 15% a meaningful odds of hitting. Not when a 10+ (as Alex outlined above) is the “standard” and PCs have incredible access to healing, regenerating, etc.
This extends beyond just AC and attacks. Initiative for example is outrageous when PCs get + for Dex and + for proficiencies. They pretty much always go first, and that’s a pain in the ass for NPC / monstrous casters. I’ve been giving my NPCs proficiencies and that helps even it out A TON.
But, I’ve come up with an alternative solution to give some monsters an edge. Going to be adding “templates” to make up for their lack of proficiencies to give them bonuses to initiative, AC, attacks, damage, thieving skills, backstab, etc.
Kind of basing it off 4E’s monster types: lurker, skirmisher, brute, soldier, elite, etc.
These will just layer over the monster’s normal stats and add XP as if they had special abilities.
I’ll post a link once I finish it up!
So… don’t use monsters with similar HD? The trend I see in high-end monsters like tyrannosaurs, rocs, and sperm whales is “primary defense is having many HP rather than significant AC, decent chance to hit an AC in the 12-15 range, and if they hit you, they do enough damage per hit that you will wish they hadn’t.” PCs tend to punch above their weight class in terms of raw AC and HP damage, with most casualties I’ve seen coming from nasty special abilities (ghoul paralysis, wyvern poison, dragon breath, &c, with reduced effectiveness at high levels due to high saves) or overwhelming monster numbers (neutralized at high levels by area spells and cleaving). You could also uncap monster to-hits on the very high end to make hitting AC 20-odd PCs viable.
That said, the template idea sounds neat! Looking forward to seeing those.
Where did he say it was the ‘standard’? He listed it as the absolute, min-maxed maximum.
Further, what do you consider a ‘reasonable percentage’? I mean, at first level, a fighter in plate and shield only gets hit 15% of the time by monsters they are fighting (equal level monsters). What’s changed at high level? Why should they be landing more blows? If they get all the time, the rider effects like Disease, Poison, and Level Drain become even more dangerous.
This extends beyond just AC and attacks. Initiative for example is outrageous when PCs get + for Dex and + for proficiencies. They pretty much always go first, and that’s a pain in the ass for NPC / monstrous casters. I’ve been giving my NPCs proficiencies and that helps even it out A TON.
I totally agree with the initiative thing. I’ve taken Dex’s init modifier away. Dex now adds to AC and ranged to hit AND damage (as well as damage if you have Weapon Finesse). But the only initiative mods are Profs and Class bonuses. This has evened things dramatically!
But, I’ve come up with an alternative solution to give some monsters an edge. Going to be adding “templates” to make up for their lack of proficiencies to give them bonuses to initiative, AC, attacks, damage, thieving skills, backstab, etc.
Kind of basing it off 4E’s monster types: lurker, skirmisher, brute, soldier, elite, etc.
These will just layer over the monster’s normal stats and add XP as if they had special abilities.
I’ll post a link once I finish it up!
I am very interested in seeing this, though I have less an issue with the ‘problem’ then you do.
The other thing I’d say is that if the characters are ‘unhittable’ then don’t try to hit them. AoE spells, traps, breath weapons are simple ways around the ‘can’t touch this’ problem. Further, if their items are a problem, why haven’t you thinned their herd a bit? Rust Monsters, Oozes, Green Slime, Acid Traps, etc are great ways to strip a few unwanted items out of the parties hands. This isn’t later editions where gear is sacrosanct!