October playtest typos / comments

[Weron]

I really like how this book is turning out!

Here are some things I noticed while looking at it (hoping this kind of feedback is useful?)

Chapter 2,
New Character Classes
“The new classes in this book include the berserker, beastmaster,”
should be “beastmaster, berserker”

Not a typo, but something I find strange:
warmistress has armor training among their class proficiencies, but “never wear armor heavier than leather” and have “graceful fighting” style, which doesn’t work with heavier armor I think?

Is there a limit to how much “provoke the passions” can be used, other than the Judge changing saving throw modifiers?

Proficiencies, Combat trickery:
“In addition, anytime the character lands a critical hit (see p. XX), he may apply his special maneuver as an effect in addition to the outcome he rolled if desired”
So on a critical hit, the character gets: Double damage + rolled effect + effect from Combat trickery? Can this not create some confusing effects? Is it a separate save, or part of the “save vs critical effect” How does it work with the critical “Shields May Be Splintered” reaction?

Proficiencies, Combat trickery:
There are some new special maneuvers in this book. Should Combat trickery be possible for them too? Combat trickery (clamber), Combat trickery (sweeping attack)?

Chapter 4, Critical hits:
Brawling: “For instance, an attacker with a nonmagical sword who rolls a Damage Shield result against a target with a magical shield could substitute a Brawling result instead”.
Shields May Be Splintered: “If the target of a critical effect is equipped with a shield, he may choose to substitute a Damage Shield result”
This makes the first example pointless. Since the target can always chose Damage Shield, the attacker has no meaningful choice. In practice, characters with magic shields are immune to critical effects from creatures with nonmagical weapons or less than 5 HD.

Sweeping attack
I think creatures with attack range more than 5’ should make targets go prone rather than withdrawing. I can’t think of a clean way to write this though

Sweeping attack
“(e.g. his attack routine plus his level in cleaves)”
only fighter progression have “level in cleaves”. Better text would be “number of cleave attacks
per round”?

Chapter 5, Heroic magic
Ceremonial magic, performing ceremonies.
The text says “The base target value for a ceremony throw is 10+, decreased by 1 point per caster level after 1st. The target value of the ceremony throw is increased by 2 points per level of the ceremony.”
This does not match the table, where the target value is increased by 2 per ceremony level after 1st level.

Mathematically, it looks like the target values is 10+ -(caster level -1) + 2*(spell level -1). This simplifies to 9 + ceremony level*2 - caster level.

Spells:

Delay Death
“A critically wounded character normally will normally die unless”
Delete one “normally”. I also don’t see the scenario in which this spell is useful. At 5th level, a cure critical wounds is quite likely to heal to 1 hp.

Drain Life II and III should have some more interesting name than II and III

Ensorcellement
“By means of this spell, the caster can mesmerizes a”
Either “can mesmerize” or “caster mesmerizes” I think.

Illusory Interior
“Ab illusory interior lasts until”
Ab → An

Inflict Lycanthropy
“Duration: 1 turn per level”
Text says it’s permanent

Ring of Fire
“within 5’ of the outer edge of the ring of fire”
I’m confused if this spell damages creatures inside the ring or not. If a creature is right inside the edge, it’s still within 5’ of the outer edge, is it not? But then why does it say “outer” edge.
How does the ring interact with solid walls etc? Can it be created if there is not enough room for a the full ring, like a 20’ ring in a 10’ wide corridor?

Strengthen the Unliving
“Eldritch 3”
Missing designation (Black).

Chapter 8
I love the details we get to see in this chapter.

Enchantment spells:
“Effect: Target forgets one minute before and one turn after spell for duration”
is missing it’s cost (of 40?)

Frightened:
“If a frightened creature cannot flee, its cower in terror”
should be “it cowers”

Infuriated:
"If the animal has "
should be “the creature”

[archon]

Thank you so much for this great feedback! I will respond in a bit, but I really appreciate this deep dive. Hugely helpful. 

[GMJoe]

It just occurred to me to ask, does the Body Swap eldrich ceremony/spell physically transform its two subjects, or does it transpose their souls? This potentially affects what sort of talisman provides a bonus when casting it, as well as such mundane concerns as which of the subjects need to be physically restrained. (Also it would come up when the effect is dispelled; There's a big difference between "returning the sorceror to his normal form" and "sending the sorceror back to his restrained body while getting the inhabitant of that body back into this one.")

Also, does the Endless SLumber spell prevent aging, or remove the need for food and drink? I'm guessing probably not, meaning that a certure subject to the spell will almost certainly die if not carefully nursed.

If you learn the reversible spell Continual Light/COntinual Tenebrosity, does it count as learning a black magic spell for the purposes of gaining corruption points?

[GMJoe]

On Restore Semblance of Life: "The caster can raise acreature that has been dead for no longer than two days at 7th level, and four days are added per level above 7," yet "As a 14th level caster, Balbus is able to restore a creature dead for up to 20 days." That last figure should be 30 days, I think.

Does Soul Eating prevent ressurection? I'm guessing yes, in which case the spell description should probably specify as much.

What does the duration of the Starfall spell represent? Is it the time the falling star takes to arrive after the spell is cast? Or does the spell have some lingering effect not specified in the text?

[GMJoe]

Some of the "Weave Substance" spells specify that they can't be passed through by monsters under a certain number of hit dice. Do player character levels count as hit dice for this purpose?

[archon]

[quote="Weron"] I really like how this book is turning out! Here are some things I noticed while looking at it (hoping this kind of feedback is useful?) Chapter 2, New Character Classes "The new classes in this book include the berserker, beastmaster," should be "beastmaster, berserker" [/quote]

Thanks!

> Not a typo, but something I find strange: warmistress has armor training among their class proficiencies, but "never wear armor heavier than leather" and have "graceful fighting" style, which doesn't work with heavier armor I think?

She can take Armor Training to gain access to chain mail if, e.g. she finds a set of magical chainmail and it's worth the loss of graceful fighting.

> Is there a limit to how much "provoke the passions" can be used, other than the Judge changing saving throw modifiers?

There is not, no. 

> Proficiencies, Combat trickery: There are some new special maneuvers in this book. Should Combat trickery be possible for them too? Combat trickery (clamber), Combat trickery (sweeping attack)?

Adding new combat trickery proficiencies is somewhat problematic and I decided not to do so.

>  Proficiencies, Combat trickery: "In addition, anytime the character lands a critical hit (see p. XX), he may apply his special maneuver as an effect in addition to the outcome he rolled if desired" So on a critical hit, the character gets: Double damage + rolled effect + effect from Combat trickery? Can this not create some confusing effects? Is it a separate save, or part of the "save vs critical effect" How does it work with the critical "Shields May Be Splintered" reaction?

> >

Chapter 4, Critical hits: Brawling: "For instance, an attacker with a nonmagical sword who rolls a Damage Shield result against a target with a magical shield could substitute a Brawling result instead". Shields May Be Splintered: "If the target of a critical effect is equipped with a shield, he may choose to substitute a Damage Shield result" This makes the first example pointless. Since the target can always chose Damage Shield, the attacker has no meaningful choice. In practice, characters with magic shields are immune to critical effects from creatures with nonmagical weapons or less than 5 HD.

Thanks for catching these inconsistencies. Revised text is below. 

Combat Trickery: ...In addition, anytime the character lands a critical hit  (see p. XX), he may apply his special maneuver as an effect in lieu of the outcome he rolled if desired.

Brawling: After seeing the result rolled on the Critical Effects table, the attacker may opt to inflict a Brawling critical effect in lieu of the effect rolled. For instance, an attacker who fears being carried off by a flying creature could substitute a Brawling result for a Clamber result. 

Combat Trickery: After seeing the result rolled on the Critical Effects table, an attacker with Combat Trickery proficiency may substitute the special maneuver with which he has proficiency in lieu of the effect rolled. For instance, an attacker with Combat Trickery (Disarm) who deals a Force Back critical hit can inflict a Disarm instead.

Shields May Be Splintered: If the target of a critical effect is equipped with a shield, he may choose to substitute a Damage Shield result in lieu of a Brawling, Damage Armor, Force Back, Injure Hide, Impair Attack, Impair Move, Knockdown, or Stun effect dealt to him. This represents the character desperately absorbing the blow on his shield.

> Sweeping attack I think creatures with attack range more than 5' should make targets go prone rather than withdrawing. I can't think of a clean way to write this though :) Sweeping attack "(e.g. his attack routine plus his level in cleaves)" only fighter progression have "level in cleaves". Better text would be "number of cleave attacks per round"?

I'm not sure why? Anecdotally when I've fought opponents with reach weapons I fall back, I don't fall down, to evade their reach.

Good fix on text. "e.g. his attack routine plus his number of cleave attacks by level"

> Chapter 5, Heroic magic Ceremonial magic, performing ceremonies. The text says "The base target value for a ceremony throw is 10+, decreased by 1 point per caster level after 1st. The target value of the ceremony throw is increased by 2 points per level of the ceremony." This does not match the table, where the target value is increased by 2 per ceremony level after 1st level. Mathematically, it looks like the target values is 10+ -(caster level -1) + 2*(spell level -1). This simplifies to 9 + ceremony level*2 - caster level.

Thanks. I just needed to add "above 1st" to the end of the sentence. "The base target value for a ceremony throw is 10+, decreased by 1 point per caster level after 1^st. The target value of the ceremony throw is increased by 2 points per level of the ceremony above 1^st"

> Spells: Delay Death "A critically wounded character normally will normally die unless" Delete one "normally". I also don't see the scenario in which this spell is useful. At 5th level, a cure critical wounds is quite likely to heal to 1 hp.

Thanks for the catch.

Not sure I agree with your critique of the spell. It really depends what degree of negative hit points the victim has been reduced to. In one of my last games of ACKS, a character that was already at low hp due to wounds (5hp out of 25hp) got dropped 120' and suffered 12d6 damage, reducing him to -25hp and mortally wounded. His base healing rate was 1d8, so Cure Critical Wounds would heal 5d8 - 5*4.5=22.5 - less than a 50% chance of keeping him alive.  Mathematically, the spell is most valuable when cast on badly-wounded low-level characters.

Note also that Healers can emulate this spell non-magically, and cannot emulate Cure Critical Wounds.

> Drain Life II and III should have some more interesting name than II and III :) 

Not every spell is as well-named as Fillet and Serve.

> Ensorcellement "By means of this spell, the caster can mesmerizes a" Either "can mesmerize" or "caster mesmerizes" I think.

> >

Illusory Interior "Ab illusory interior lasts until" Ab -> An

> >

Strengthen the Unliving "Eldritch 3" Missing designation (Black). 

> >

Thanks for all these catches!

> Inflict Lycanthropy "Duration: 1 turn per level"  Text says it's permanent

Spells duration is permanent. Thanks!

> Ring of Fire "within 5’ of the outer edge of the ring of fire" I'm confused if this spell damages creatures inside the ring or not. If a creature is right inside the edge, it's still within 5' of the outer edge, is it not? But then why does it say "outer" edge. How does the ring interact with solid walls etc? Can it be created if there is not enough room for a the full ring, like a 20' ring in a 10' wide corridor? 

Great questions. I've re-written the spell below to answer that.

This spell surrounds the caster with a protective circle of immobile, opaque, flame. The ring of fire is 4’ high and 1” thick, and encircles the caster at a radius of 5’ to 20’ (selected when the spell is cast). Because of its low height, the ring of fire does not block line of sight, and creatures capable of flight or high jumping can easily clear it. Creatures outside the ring that begin their initiative within 5’ of its outer edge or who move within 5’ of its outer edge on their initiative, suffer 1d6 points of fire damage. Creatures that pass through the ring of fire suffer an additional 2d6 points of fire damage. The ring deals double damage to undead creatures or creatures who use cold or are accustomed to cold. The ring may be evoked so that it appears where objects or creatures already are. Creatures who make a successful saving throw versus Blast are able to dive into or out of the ring (their choice) without being harmed; objects such as furniture in the circumference of the ring will be ignited. However, if the ring is evoked so that parts of its circumference overlaps with a noncombustible barrier (such as a stone wall), that part of the ring will simply not manifest, resulting in an incomplete circle.

[quote[ Chapter 8 I love the details we get to see in this chapter. [/quote]

Glad all the hard work was appreciated!

> Enchantment spells: "Effect: Target forgets one minute before and one turn after spell for duration" is missing it's cost (of 40?) 

Yes. Thank you!

> Frightened: "If a frightened creature cannot flee, its cower in terror" should be "it cowers" Infuriated: "If the animal has " should be "the creature"  

Thanks!

[archon]

[quote="GMJoe"]

Some of the "Weave Substance" spells specify that they can't be passed through by monsters under a certain number of hit dice. Do player character levels count as hit dice for this purpose?

[/quote]

They do only to the extent that they afford Hit Dice. For some monster races, levels don't afford Hit Dices at the same rate. See AXIOMS Kobold class for ex.

[archon]

[quote="GMJoe"]

It just occurred to me to ask, does the Body Swap eldrich ceremony/spell physically transform its two subjects, or does it transpose their souls? This potentially affects what sort of talisman provides a bonus when casting it, as well as such mundane concerns as which of the subjects need to be physically restrained. (Also it would come up when the effect is dispelled; There's a big difference between "returning the sorceror to his normal form" and "sending the sorceror back to his restrained body while getting the inhabitant of that body back into this one.")

[/quote]

Great question. I orginally wrote the spell as "Transpose Soul" but that would have required building a lot of new spell effects, so I ultimately built the spell as a transformation of th subjects. It's like the movie Face/Off, where one person's form is transferred to the other.

>

> >

Also, does the Endless SLumber spell prevent aging, or remove the need for food and drink? I'm guessing probably not, meaning that a certure subject to the spell will almost certainly die if not carefully nursed.

> >

Putting someone in suspended animation would be a higher level spell, I think.

>

> >

If you learn the reversible spell Continual Light/COntinual Tenebrosity, does it count as learning a black magic spell for the purposes of gaining corruption points?

> >

Eldritch caster learn spells like arcane casters, so they have to learn reversed spells separately. So if you learn Continual Light, you don't automatically know Continual Tenebrosity, and if you do learn the latter, you gain corruption.

[archon]

[quote="GMJoe"]

On Restore Semblance of Life: "The caster can raise acreature that has been dead for no longer than two days at 7th level, and four days are added per level above 7," yet "As a 14th level caster, Balbus is able to restore a creature dead for up to 20 days." That last figure should be 30 days, I think.

[/quote]

Good catch!

>  Does Soul Eating prevent ressurection? I'm guessing yes, in which case the spell description should probably specify as much.

Victims whose souls are eaten cannot be restored to life by any means short of a miracle or wish. Added to the spell description.

> What does the duration of the Starfall spell represent? Is it the time the falling star takes to arrive after the spell is cast? Or does the spell have some lingering effect not specified in the text? 

It represents a typo. Duration is instantaneous!

 

 

[GMJoe]

[quote="Alex"] I orginally wrote the spell as "Transpose Soul" but that would have required building a lot of new spell effects, so I ultimately built the spell as a transformation of th subjects. It's like the movie Face/Off, where one person's form is transferred to the other. [/quote]

I just read the section that breaks down how each spell was built, and I see you already answered this question there. Whoops. Sorry for the confusion.

In any case, this spell is close enough in effect to transposing souls that I feel totally comfortable saying that a hypothetical transposition of souls spell would be the same level... And, as I've wanted a transposition of souls spell for use my own campaign as a way of cheating old age, that makes me very happy.

[quote="Alex"] Eldritch caster learn spells like arcane casters, so they have to learn reversed spells separately. So if you learn Continual Light, you don't automatically know Continual Tenebrosity, and if you do learn the latter, you gain corruption. [/quote]

Whoops. I don't know how I missed that. Thanks again!

I very much appreciate the sheer flavourfulness of eldrich magic, by the way.

[archon]

[quote="GMJoe"]

I just read the section that breaks down how each spell was built, and I see you already answered this question there. Whoops. Sorry for the confusion.

In any case, this spell is close enough in effect to transposing souls that I feel totally comfortable saying that a hypothetical transposition of souls spell would be the same level... And, as I've wanted a transposition of souls spell for use my own campaign as a way of cheating old age, that makes me very happy.

[/quote]

Absolutely. That's definitely a major purpose of the spell!

>

> >

I very much appreciate the sheer flavourfulness of eldrich magic, by the way.

> >

Thanks! I'm thrilled with how it came out. It feels like magic "ought to feel" to me. Can't wait to deploy it into a campaign.

[GMJoe]

A thing that's not included in the playtest rules (unless I've missed something again) is how to determine the starting repertoire for a newly created eldrich caster or ceremonialist. In ACKS, the guideline for arcane spellcasters was "One of these ~4 broadly-useful spells as chosen by the Judge, plus a number of rolls on the first-level arcane spell table equal to the mage's intelligence bonus." I'm guessing eldrich casters and ceremonialists should probably use a similar guideline, but there are a couple of things that complicate that:

1. Eldrich casters and ceremonialists may have slightly larger repertoires than mages for the same intelligence bonus. Should the number of random table rolls made by an eldrich caster class with be increased similarly?
2. There are three different first-level eldrich spell tables, one for each of the different shades of magic. Should the table(s) an eldrich caster rolls their starting ceremonies/spells on be determined randomly? Or should it be the player's choice, or based on their choice of alignment or class?

On an unrelated note, will there be any specific guidance on how to generate magic treasures when combining content from heroic fantasy and ACKS core in a single campaign? I ask because I've been pondering using Heroic Fantasy as a splatbook for my own existing core campaign, and I'm worried that using only a single random treasure table might make it harder for eldrich and/or arcane casters to find the scrolls and spellbooks they need to fill out their repertoires. (No worries if the answer is no; I'll just confine eldrich magic to certain regions of the map/realms beyond mishapen portals, and let my players choose where to adventure.)

[archon]

Repertoire is determined exactly as for arcane casters - you start with a number of spells in your repertoire equal to the number on the spell progression table. What am I missing?

As far as treasure, the HFH treasure tables are going to assume you're only using eldritch magic. A combo table that combines eldritch, arcane, and divine magic will have to wait for AXIOMS.

[Weron]

[quote="Alex"]

Sweeping attack I think creatures with attack range more than 5' should make targets go prone rather than withdrawing. I can't think of a clean way to write this though :)

I'm not sure why? Anecdotally when I've fought opponents with reach weapons I fall back, I don't fall down, to evade their reach.

[/quote]

I’m imagining sweeping dragon claws, giant clubs, kraken tentacles. Not simply large weapons. But I think this is a bit “outside” the system, as we don’t have longer reach for bigger creatures as a general rule.

[quote="Alex"]

Spells: Delay Death: I also don't see the scenario in which this spell is useful. At 5th level, a cure critical wounds is quite likely to heal to 1 hp.

Not sure I agree with your critique of the spell. It really depends what degree of negative hit points the victim has been reduced to. In one of my last games of ACKS, a character that was already at low hp due to wounds (5hp out of 25hp) got dropped 120' and suffered 12d6 damage, reducing him to -25hp and mortally wounded. His base healing rate was 1d8, so Cure Critical Wounds would heal 5d8 - 5*4.5=22.5 - less than a 50% chance of keeping him alive.  Mathematically, the spell is most valuable when cast on badly-wounded low-level characters.

Note also that Healers can emulate this spell non-magically, and cannot emulate Cure Critical Wounds.

[/quote]

I had missed the part where this can be done with the horsetail herb and healing proficiency. Thinking as a PC with limited repertoire, the cost of having this spell as one of my very limited 5th level spells is quite high. But I see the scenario and agree that it has a use.

Unrelated: your example has a character with 25 hp going to -25. Is there a cap on negative hit points equal to max hp, or is that just a coincidence?

[DrPete]

I think the question is… there are now 3 spell lists for each level. Do you have a proposal for selecting starting repertoire spells, like…

Choose each starting spell at random. First select a spell list, based on the character’s alignment:

Lawful: 1-4: White, 5-6: Gray
Neutral: 1-2: White, 3-4: Gray, 5-6: Black
Chaotic: 1-2: Grey, 3-6: Black

Etc…

Or possibly: 1-7: Black, 8-14: Gray, 15+: White, but Lawful characters add +3, and chaotic characters subtract 3. A character may add or subtract his or her Intelligence bonus.

[archon]

[quote="DrPete"] I think the question is... there are now 3 spell lists for each level. Do you have a proposal for selecting starting repertoire spells, like... Choose each starting spell at random. First select a spell list, based on the character's alignment: Lawful: 1-4: White, 5-6: Gray Neutral: 1-2: White, 3-4: Gray, 5-6: Black Chaotic: 1-2: Grey, 3-6: Black Etc... Or possibly: 1-7: Black, 8-14: Gray, 15+: White, but Lawful characters add +3, and chaotic characters subtract 3. A character may add or subtract his or her Intelligence bonus. [/quote]

Oh. Ohhhhh. I'll have to give that some thought.

[Aryxymaraki]

Now that ceremonialists no longer cast spells with divine power, should black lotus (pg 74) reduce stigma in some fashion instead of giving divine power? (Figuring out what it gives non-casters is more complicated!)

Revised Find Traps description (page 86) says it takes 1 turn to search 10 square feet. I think this should be 10 feet square (a 10’x10’ area)?

[GMJoe]

[quote="Alex"] Repertoire is determined exactly as for arcane casters - you start with a number of spells in your repertoire equal to the number on the spell progression table. [/quote]

Eh? According to page 67 of the core rules, the number of spells in an arcane caster's spell progression table is irrelevant to how many spells they start with in their repertoire. Such characters start with a number of spells that's between one and one-plus-their-intelligence modifier. Was this errata'd?

[quote="Alex"] What am I missing? [/quote]

DrPete has the right of it: Heroic Fantasy features three different tables for spells of each level. Making the selection of which to roll on purely random could produce some weird results (e.g: a lawfully-aligned and high-minded nobrian wizard whose spells are all sould-scarring black magic), but giving players the ability to choose which table to roll on adds a big-and-slow decision to otherwise-fast ACKS character creation.

[the_night_pwner]

Related, but not really, question: are magical scrolls going to be categorized by tradition the way trinkets and talismans are in the HFC?

[Aryxymaraki]

Destroy Dead is not listed in the main spell list tables.

Also, is it black magic because it can target inanimate corpses? It feels odd to have a spell specifically designed to destroy the undead that is black magic.