Thought experiment - Radical hACKS

General ACKS Forums General Discussion
1

I sometimes get the urge to take a big axe and hack ACKS - which is already a wonderful variant of D&D with sword'n'sorcery overtones - into a simple, no-holds-barred, heavy-metal sword'n'sorcery game.

I'm writing this as a though experiment; previous commitments to Autarch and Stellagama Publishing preclude rapid development of these ideas in the short run.

So, what do I want?

1. Shaded Eldritch non-ceremonial magic.

2. Fighter, Thief, Sorcerer (Eldritch), Antediluvian (Eldritch "Zaharan Ruinguard"), Lizardman (Thrassian Gladiator minus Infravision)

3. Standard ACKS combat rules and Eldritch magic rules (I'd give 6 spells of each shade of each level, i.e. 108 spells in total).

4. Sword and sorcery monsters. Goblins - no. Dinosaurs, mammoths, dragons, toadmen, things with tentacles - yes. Heroic treasures minus the ceremonial stuff.

5. Heroic Fantasy healing, with modified low-level healing (so that low-level healing won't be too nerfed - a common complaint at the HFH healing rules).

6. Flat or otherwise modified Thief skills:
http://www.autarch.co/forums/general-discussion/flat-thief-abilities

7. Probably keep high-level options/domains/hijinks/setting building for ACKS Core or an "Advanced" set.

Ideal format: a single 120-page (64 page if I can, but unlikely) 6''x9'' booklet.

What do you think?

2

Needs to have half-naked female warrior with an oversized sword, a skull, and a flying beast on the cover

 

3

[quote="Alex"]

Needs to have half-naked female warrior with an oversized sword, a skull, and a flying beast on the cover

 

[/quote]

Indeed ;-)

4

Point 7 and the size restriction got me thinking... your not thinking about high level here... you looking at adventures or conquerors, maybe not kings. What if you called it a level 8 as a concept. Would really slim it down, less spells to factor in. The old earthdawn called it at 8 from memory. The rest would still exist in theory, but the build for the main game would be a faster hack to put together. 

And to add to the current chain - riding a dinosaur.

5

[quote="Chimera_Prime"]

Point 7 and the size restriction got me thinking... your not thinking about high level here... you looking at adventures or conquerors, maybe not kings. What if you called it a level 8 as a concept. Would really slim it down, less spells to factor in. The old earthdawn called it at 8 from memory. The rest would still exist in theory, but the build for the main game would be a faster hack to put together. 

And to add to the current chain - riding a dinosaur.

[/quote]

I like this restriction; add, if necessary, a later core-book with high-level play.

Level 8 is a good cut-off point as this is right below the "name level" and allows you to play a "superhero" in D&D terms; it is also a "sweet spot" for wilderness exploration (levels 7-8). This allows a lot of powers unlocked at level 7 to serve you here. 4 levels/"circles" of spells; most monsters at 12 HD or less.

And yes, I'd add clear rules for riding dinosaurs, as well as the beasts themselves.

6

The only problem is that this will put Restore Life and Limb outside of the spell list. Or does that have an intentional charm to it?

7

Good point, I forgot its a level 7 ritual in Eldritch magic.

So, from one perspective it's only available at level 11 anyway, so rare until late game. The problem is you can't go to a town to buy it... But would such a large town exist? Technically low powered level characters can lead baronies or marches. Reminds me of border princes in Warhammer (2ed) a little.

Bug or feature then :) 

If you use fate points you get the recovery anyway, so death is lessened. Again, a little warhammery...

If you picked Eldritch magic, your on the cusp of restricting it's access anyway as you have less flashy magic.

I would say it's a feature. To some degree the premis is that it's still possible, just extremely rare. Other sources could exist, magic items, a strange being that lives in a cave on a mountain.

8

Restore Life and Limb outside of the play scope really tells of the world in that while magic does exist, it simply doesn't have the power to restore life.  Or atleast not for mortals.

If you did want to include it however, it wouldn't be that strange to see it as a Ritual of some kind (presuming you want rituals at all).  However it would be something only available to level 8 spell casters, or if you have plans for any side progression after 8th (like the gaining of proficencies through extended training times), it could be bought from that.  Even including a handful of other spells as rituals as well (those of 5th level or higher).

Alternativly a lower level version could exist but need to be done within a turn to have any effect (theoritically meaning once the soul has left the being, nothing mortals can do would return it).

At the end of the day as I see it the spell not being available says a lot about the setting/style.

9

In the hypothetical "Basic" book, I'd do this as a rare magic item; Scroll of Restoration, as well as the Wish items (for full effect) and Ring/Potion of Regeneration (for wounds only). Rare - most injury will stay, and death is almost always permanent.

It will be part of the hypothetical "Expert" book, and noted as an "Optional Rule" with a note about setting implications. Or replaced with Semblance of Life! (and a Regeneration spell limited to wounds only).

10

Another question - would you put the level cap at 6 (an "E6" ruleset) or at 8 (an "E8" ruleset)? E8 allows "Superhero" characters (in D&D terms) and level 4 spells, as well as various level 7 powers (which, IIRC, are common); but E6 has a certain elegant charm of three spell levels.

 

11

I think the combat rules from HFH are are a better match for that type of game then just using core.

12

[quote="Rodriguez"]

I think the combat rules from HFH are are a better match for that type of game then just using core.

[/quote]

Indeed! Great idea.

13

E6 and E8 were based somewhat on 3.0 breakpoints (did you get feats at even levels, I can't remember). I wonder here if the equivalents are 5 and 7 in ACKs, or 7 and 9 (Smaller hit dice and slower attack progression in ACKs). My suggestion on the 8 cap was to avoid the name level play (which while awesome doesn't seem to be the focus of this). I think people like to see a few levels in thier game for it to be fun. 3 to 5 could be seen as too little, 6 on the cusp but not yet there.

7 is actually an interesting breakpoint, everyone steps up in saves and to hit at seven. Also, as you mention, a lot of class powers can trigger at that point. 

The other thing is 4th level Eldritch magic is not as flashy as arcane. So its not such a comparative hurdle. (As in not so superheroic)

I would say 7 or 8 remains the best.

14

I'd propose 8, then, as the cut-off level. The hypothetical "Advanced" book would have levels 9-14 and related material (domains, permanent magic item creation, golem/undead/crossbreed creation, level 5-6 spells + rituals, etc). The "Basic" Radical hACKS book would have potion and scroll creation rules, though.

15

Having 8 as the cutoff seems reasonable.

As to the missing RL&L, there's a couple things to keep in mind.  First, you can have it be a rare magic item/service and simply provide the cost, hand waiving it and saying that you must find high level sorcerer or a rare ancient scroll to do it.

Second, as others have pointed out, if you include at least a few fate points, that is going to do the majority of the heavy lifting of RL&L. since you can use it to essentially avoid most rolls on the mortal wounds table.

16

Yes, fate points will be very useful in such a ruleset, and thematic as well.

17

In which case... Might i suggest the following, this is the house rule i use in my games.

Starting Allocation of Fate Points: Characters begin with one or more Fate Points based on their net ability bonuses/penalties. The player should record his character’s allocation of Fate Points on his character sheet. To determine this add up all the ability bonuses/penalties numbers for the character and consult the table below.

Net ability
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">bonus/penalty</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Fates</span></div>

		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">decision</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Fate</span></div>

		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">points</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">-3 or fewer</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div>&nbsp;</div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">10</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">-2</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Chosen of the Gods</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">9</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">-1</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div>&nbsp;</div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#808080; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">8</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">0</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div>&nbsp;</div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">7</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">+1</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Fortune Favors the Bold</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">6</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">+2</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div>&nbsp;</div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#a6a6a6; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">5</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">+3</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div>&nbsp;</div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">4</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">+4</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Fate is Fickle</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">3</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">+5</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div>&nbsp;</div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#bfbfbf; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">2</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr>
		<td style="background-color:#d9d9d9; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">+6 or more</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#d9d9d9; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Uncaring Fate</span></div>
		</td>
		<td style="background-color:#d9d9d9; vertical-align:middle">
		<div><span style="background-color:transparent; color:rgb(0, 0, 0)">1</span></div>
		</td>
	</tr>
</tbody>

So, I do this along with roll 5 and 3d6 as they fall (and tradoff 2 for 1 prime). Its intented to throw another choice into the mix. I got a bit sick of seeing "for the game to be heroic you must have high attributtes". The problem with this is it removes some of the fun of playing characters with a range of attributtes.

Under this system i have seen players make choices that they would not have otherwise made. eg. Sorcerers who go for high INT only, trading down other attributtes for fate points so they can get the extra spells fate points alow. I give a bit more than normal, but have them only recover once a week, forcing choice. 

Players with good attributtes get less, but hey, they have good attributtes. You can play a relatively normal character - with 9 across the board, and recieve 7 fate points, giving your character a unique flavour compared to other characters with attributes of 16 that have 4 or less. I then only alow one fate point per proficiency.
 
 
 
18

I love this! Goes well with the "3d6 x6 in order" OSR generation method.

19

The TSR vibe is real. More specifically Mr. Gygax laughing at the world of hurt you don't even know you entered.

20

[quote="Thevampman24"]

The TSR vibe is real. More specifically Mr. Gygax laughing at the world of hurt you don't even know you entered.

[/quote]

You mean, the B/X split approach? Why is it a "World of hurt"?