Throwing around the idea of running a session or two of ACKs soon for some players who are members of the Pathfinder Society. I have managed to corrupt several Pathfinder players into playing Castles and Crusades as that system uses Base To Hit instead of BAB but it is formatted easily enough for them to understand it being very similar to Pathfinder.
This would also mean I can run adventures designed for C&C, Basic Fantasy and some generic OSR type d20 adventures in ACKs without having to change things to much either subbing in ACKs monster or using them by the book as the numbers will be close enough if not identical. I can convert between BAB, THAC0 and ACKs system in my head reasonably fast but my players can’t as they struggle with descending attack numbers.
Has anyone else tried this? I am thinking of making it up on a nice print out as errata for the ACKs books.
I’ve taken FA/CA/TA (Fighting/Casting/Turning Ability) from AS&SH into my ACKS game and it seems to work fine. Just set FA to (10 - Attack Throw), add 10 to all ACKS ACs, and you’re pretty much good to go. In Pathfinder/3.x terms, FA is equivalent to BAB (roll d20 + FA + modifiers, hit on AC or better) and CA/TA are (I think) equivalent to ECL.
Yeah, if you just add 10 to ACKs ACs, then the rate of descent for attack throw targets would become the rate of ascent for a BAB. Fighting types have 2/3rds BAB per level (so 0, 1.33(1), 2, 2.66(2), 3.33(3), etc.) cleric/thief types would have 1/2 BAB per level, and magic types or anyone with no fighting skill would gain 1/3 BAB per level.
Yup. I don’t know the BTH system, but if I get my main face-to-face group to play ACKS, we’ll be using BAB.
Take all ACs, add 10.
BAB is equal to (10 - Attack Throw Value).
As nDervish said, that’s all there is to it; your conversion is complete with two lines.
Base to hit is basically the same as BAB with different numbers. +1, +2 etc. Converting the numbers is not hard.
This is pretty much my biggest complaint with ACKS…it’s more difficult and it also breaks compatibility with pretty much all other OSR games.
It’s not hard to convert, but still, it just is unnecessary and more than a little confusing unless ACKS is the first thing you’ve ever played.
I agree with you in part Discojer. I wish BAB or THACO was implemented instead of making up a “3rd way”. However, I don’t think that it is harder. It seemed to me to be the case at first too, but that is because I don’t get to play the game as much as I’d like. After our last session it finally clicked for our group. Here’s what I’ve told my players to do and they have found it really easy to do:
Beforehand: Adjust your Attack Throw by your Str/Dex modifier and write the adjusted attack throw down for each weapon on your character sheet. If you have any special permanent modifiers (i.e. magic weapon bonus, weapon training) add them in too per weapon, as it’s extremely rare that those change.
- Roll the d20.
- Add any circumstantial modifiers to the d20 result (such as backstab).
- Subtract the adjusted attack throw for the weapon you used (that you listed on your character sheet).
- That is the AC you hit. Tell the Judge that number.
Most of the time, it’s just a 2-step process… roll d20… subtract attack throw.
Zardnaar, you’ve posted earlier a conversion chart between D20 AC/BAB and ACKS AC/Attack-Throw:
I don’t even adjust the attack throws. I do it like:
+2 sword 1d6+1
where the +2 is a +1 from STR, +1 from single weapon style, let’s say.
Roll d20+2, get a 14
Compare that to the default attack throw for the class, usually (for the kids, so they’re not having to stress on the subtraction at the table during what is supposed to be fun-fighty-time) using ye olde THAC0 style table:
AC 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
AT 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Excusing the formatting, I know a 14 hits AC 4. I modify the AT line only when level changes, and keep all the variable modifiers up at the weapon line.
While I agree that it’s no harder in theory, I also know that, in practice, combat immediately started running much faster for my group as soon as I switched from ACKS’ “Attack Throw” system to (essentially) a BAB system. For my players, at least, “roll d20 + modifiers, hit that AC” is noticeably faster to resolve than “roll d20 + modifiers - Attack Throw” or “roll d20 + modifiers and look on the to-hit table”.
That was more theory crafting and I could not find that thread and lost my account details for a bit:).
By converting one can use Castles and Crusades and Basic Fantasy stuff with ACKs.
oh! that’s very intriguing. are there any products you recommend in those lines? I’m particularly always eager for good adventures/sites I can plop into my world.
Basic Fantasy stuff is free.
And for $2 this is very good IMHO.
I ran ACKs with the ToEE and B5 Horror on the Hill.
you appear to have included the same link, although I clicked on both before I noticed!
excellent! thanks. I might actually consider picking some of these up. You said it’s BAB? so converting should be fairly easy, yeah?
C&C uses BtH which is more or less the same as BAB- +1, +2, +2 etc. Monster stat blocks do not use it as BtH= their hit dice. So you could use the monster stats but you would have too use ACKs saves and attack throws which are not included in the basic stats. Well they kind of are I suppose a 4HD monster has +4 on all saves, skill checks and attack rolls.
hmmmm… one of these days, someone more motivated than me is going to need to publish/share a document with extensive conversion guidelines for all the various OSR rules out there.
Either way, for 2 bucks I might have to try at least some of them to test the waters.
There are a lot of OSR games. If you can fliup THACO and BAB in your head easy enough they are more or less compatible with each other in terms of adventures anyway.
ACKs is a bit different but even then its not to hard to run TSR/OSR adventures with ACKs.