Craftpriests, Machinists, Proficiencies

I’ve had ACKs for a while and am just now getting to it. I have a few questions about the Craftpriest and Machinist classes and proficiencies in general.

  1. The text says a Craftpriest starts as a Journeyman (equivalent of 2 ranks) in a craft and can identify stuff on a 8+. A journeyman is worth two proficiencies in craft though, and by the general rule that every time you buy an additional proficiency rank in the same thing the difficulty drops by 4, shouldn’t the throw value be 7+?

  2. Oddly, looking at the Dwarven Machinist in the PC: they are considered to be masters (3 ranks) and the throw value is 9+. Using the stacked proficiency logic, again, shouldn’t it be 3+? (11 to 7 to 3)

Also, FYI: The text refers to being able to supervise 3 apprentices, but it should be 4 according to the proficiency.

  1. What does the +3 bonus to attention to detail specifically apply to each class? For the Machinist, it says that the bonus is already built into to the craft ability, but it doesn’t say that for the Craftpriest.

  2. You need 4 ranks with Engineering to be considered a specialist. So would the throw then would be -1+?

  3. Why can’t I take the same Labor proficiency multiple times? How could I get better at it? I mean, no PC would want to, but it seems an odd restriction as it suggests that no one gets better at these things beyond a 50/50 toss.

Thanks in advance for answering these.

Hi Nick,
These are great questions. I’ll address them one by one.

  1. The intent of the rules is that the target value for a proficiency throw improves by +4 if the proficiency doesn’t provide for another benefit from taking it more than once. For Art, Crafting, and similar proficiencies the value of selecting the proficiency more than once comes in being more productive, not being better at able to identify works.

E.g. the difference between Craft (blacksmithing) and Knowledge (weaponsmithing) is that additional ranks in Craft will make you a better smith while additional ranks in Knowledge (blacksmithing) would make you better at identifying the great works of smiths.

The rules were not very clear in this regard and I apologize for their obscurity. In general, the +4 bonus will apply on proficiencies that either explicitly say so, or that simply say “A character may select this proficiency additional times.”

  1. This looks like errata. It should be 8+ and 4 apprentices.

  2. It would apply to any proficiency with a target value. E.g. for the Craftpriest it has reduced the target value of their Theology throw from 11+ to 8+. “Because of their religious training, a craftpriest can automatically identify religious symbols, trappings, and holy days of the dwarven faith, and recognizes those of other faiths with a proficiency throw of 8+ on 1d20.”

  3. No, as per above. Increasing ranks in Engineering makes you able to build bigger structures, but it doesn’t make you a better historian of engineering.

  4. You’ll note that for work-related proficiencies, taking extra proficiency slots means you are worth more gp per month. By definition, Labor proficiency is meant to include those fields of work which are insufficiently complex to be able to justify additional gp from superior knowledge.

If for some reason you needed to create a character who was an expert at, e.g., identifying agricultural history, you could use Knowledge (agriculture) instead of Labor (farming). If your society has a more advanced state of agricultural science, where the best farmers were much more productive, you could use Craft (farming).

I hope that helps!

That’s very clear. Thanks Alex.

Somewhat related question…whenever the text says a class has bonuses to saves or a proficiency bit like with the craftpriest and machinist, it’s already figured in, correct? I ask because sometimes this is mentioned (dwarves and saves) and sometimes it is not (elves and saves).

It is already figured in, yes. If you compare the saving throws for elves versus comparable classes, for instance, you can see the effect of the bonuses.