Magic-User starting Proficiencies - "Lores"

General ACKS Forums House Rules
1

I'm trying to make up a bunch of homebrew proficiencies for Magic-Users in a potential ACKS campaign, with major inspiration from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

The idea is that a starting MU can select a proficiency, which gives them a choice of a starting spell, and gives a specific perk. Most of these are patterned after Black Lore of Zahar or Transmogrification (indeed two of these Lores replace them).

An MU's starting proficiency must be spent on one of the following Lores, which lets you pick a starting spell based from the lore list (the remaining spell is rolled as normal).

Lore of Light
Starting spell choice: Any
+2 to saving throws vs. chaotic arcane Magic (but not divine)
Spells that protect against magic have their duration extended by 50%

Lore of Fire/Ice/Storms (replaces Elementalism)
starting spell choices: Magic Missile (picked element only) Burning Hands/Slipperiness/Light (based on element)
+1 damage per die for spells of selected element and -2 to saves for spells of that element

Lore of Metal
starting spell choice: Sharpness, Shield, Floating Disc, Hold Portal, Read Languages
spells that imbue items or people with extraordinary properties last 1 round/turn longer (as appropriate to the original duration of the spell)
+2 magical research rolls to craft constructs

Lore of Clouds
starting spell choice: Sleep, Charm Person, Wall of Smoke
cloud spells you cast are saved against with a -2 penalty
+2 saving throws against cloud spells

Lore of Death (replaces Black Lore of Zahar)
starting spell choice: Sleep, Choking Grip, Unseen Servant
Spells cast by this character that force save vs. death are taken at -2
+2 magical research rolls for Necromancy

Lore of Shadows
starting spell choice: Unseen Servant, Chameleon, Sleep, Ventriloquism
+2 saves vs. illusion attempts to disbelieve illusions created by character are at -2

Lore of Transformation (replaces Transmogrification)
starting spell choice: Spider Climb, Magic Rope, Summon Berserkers
Polymorph is calculated at +2 CL, targets of polymorph other sufffer -2 to save
+2 magical research rolls for Crossbreeding

Any thoughts regarding balance or possible problems further down the line with a system like this?

2

I like it. What about other Arcane casters (e.g., Elven Spellsword, Warlock, Wonderworker, etc.)?

3

Reads like a nice way to do variant mages without building complete custom classes.

I might make this a bonus proficiency in my world if I wanted to amp up mage starting power a tiny bit while not shifting their long-term power.

It'd also make me want to invent more mage spells, organizations, world-specific variants... Yoink!

4

[quote="bobloblah"]

I like it. What about other Arcane casters (e.g., Elven Spellsword, Warlock, Wonderworker, etc.)?

[/quote]

They get zip - they've already get cool custom powers like being an Elf and such. I made the Lores to give the generic MU a bit more sparkle; glad to see it feels nicely thematic rather than overly strong. The Lore of Death is actually a little less powerful than Black Lore (there's no +2 CL for necromantic spells), which makes Warlocks a little more unique as the arcane caster that really gives up their soul for dark power.

5

I’d say Lore of Death is significantly weaker than Black Lore, actually, since it doesn’t offer the ability to control undead at half cleric level (which is a really, really, strong ability).

But Black Lore is a bit on the powerful side to start with.

6

[quote="Aryxymaraki"] I'd say Lore of Death is significantly weaker than Black Lore, actually, since it doesn't offer the ability to control undead at half cleric level (which is a really, really, strong ability). But Black Lore is a bit on the powerful side to start with. [/quote]

I'm pretty divided about leaving that in, actually. I think it's a really cool and fluffy ability but it's very strong for a proficiency. Maybe a lesser "Pacify Undead" ability might work - not able to control or destroy them outright, but make them act in a manner similar to "charm person".

7

Is it that strong? I always thought it was...okay. The half level and 1-turn-per-level time limit kept it well in check, as far as I was concerned.

8

Here's a slightly changed version that attempts to keep the power level of some proficiencies like "Black Lore of Zahar". The main change is giving each starting proficiency two levels - this means Magic Users can "improve" their starting proficiency later on and gain the second benefit.

An MU's starting proficiency must be spent on one of the following Lores, which lets you pick a starting spell based from the lore list and gain benefit #1. Spending a second proficiency on your starting Lore will grant the second bonus.

Lore of Light
starting spell choice: Any
1. +2 to saving throws vs. chaotic arcane Magic (but not divine)
2. Spells that protect against magic of any kind (ex. Shield, Globe of Invulnerability) have their duration extended by 50% (round down)

Lore of Fire/Ice/Storms
starting spell choices: Magic Missile (picked element only) Burning Hands/Slipperiness/Light (based on element)
1. +1 damage per die for spells of selected element
2. -2 to saves for spells of that element

Lore of Metal
starting spell choice: Sharpness, Shield, Floating Disc, Hold Portal, Read Languages
1. +2 to magical research rolls for constructs, +1 to research rolls to make items
2. spells that enchant inanimate items or create walls/barriers (including shield) have their duration increased by 1 round/turn (whichever nomenclature is used in the description)

Lore of Clouds
starting spell choice: Sleep, Charm Person, Wall of Smoke
1. +2 saves vs. clouds
2. spells that create clouds give a -2 to saving throws

Lore of Shadows
starting spell choice: Unseen Servant, Chameleon, Sleep, Ventriloquism
1. +2 saves vs. illusion
2. attempts to disbelieve illusions created by character are at -2

Lore of Beasts
starting spell choice: Unseen Servant, Summon Berserkers
1. Summoned creatures gain +1 HP per hit die, +2 magical research on Crossbreeding
2. Spells that summon a creature last an extra round/turn (depending on spell nomenclature)

Lore of Death
starting spell choice: Sleep, Choking Grip, Unseen Servant
1. spells that force save vs. death are taken at -2, +2 magical research rolls for Necromancy
2. may control undead at 1/2 caster level

Lore of Transformation
starting spell choice: Spider Climb, Magic Rope, Summon Berserkers
1. Polymorph is calculated at +2 CL, +2 magical research rolls for crossbreeding
2. targets of polymorph other sufffer -2 to save

Is this one better than the first idea, or is this verging on too complex?

9

Does this mean General Proficiencies can be spent on a Lore?

Some of your spell selections are, I would say, pretty unbalanced, and I'm not sure that's counterbalanced by the rest of the Lore benefits. You might want to tweak the available spells for some them. And I think that's my biggest struggle here...I like where you're going, but don't feel like it's quite balanced the way it is...

So, a spellcaster can select their first spell from their Lore, but what about additional Repertoire slots from high Intelligence? Are those also selectable from their Lore's short list? Keep in mind that some 1st level spells are just way better than others. Sleep, Charm Person, and Summon Berserkers, pretty much in that order, are better than almost everything else. That's really only evened out by random spell selection and acquisition. This also means that Lore of Clouds is top of the heap in this regard, with two of those three spells.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point...but I would think of adjusting the spell selections, and considering very carefully how characters will be able to choose spells from the lists.

10

Even at half level, turn/control undead is an incredibly strong ability.

I didn’t rate it that highly until I played a character with it, but it’s basically a ‘roll a d20 to see if you instantly win the fight’. (Control Undead even moreso than Turn, because controlled undead will fight for you or at least protect you, while turned undead just run away.) This is particularly powerful, I think, for a mage, since there’s no real resource management involved; you can give it a shot and see what happens before you bother casting a spell.

(Also, starting at 12th level, they get the D result for skeletons, which is 1 day per level control, but admittedly that’s not a real power thing since by 12th level they’ve got plenty of ways to control skeletons available.)

And Black Lore gets basically all the same effects as Transmogrification or Master of Charms/Illusions, with the control undead at half level just thrown in as a bonus. It’s simply more power than Transmogrification, even if control undead at half level was a weak ability.

11

[quote="bobloblah"]  And I think that's my biggest struggle here...I like where you're going, but don't feel like it's quite balanced the way it is... [/quote]

This is exactly the sort of feedback I'm looking for - I am very unsure of the balance here myself which is why I'm posting this in the first place before springing the idea on the group. The idea is that a starting MU chooses one spell from the Lore-specific list, and then the remaining spells are rolled for randomly as in normal MU creation from the entire list. I feel most of the lists have one decently powered spells - are any particularly problematic?

The other option might be to let MUs pick one, then roll one from the list - if they roll a duplicate of the one they picked, they don't get anything extra. A little re-jiggering of the spell lists so that there's only one really potent option would then help this. Then bonus spells from Intelligence come from all MU spells as normal.

Initially I was thinking of only allowing class proficiency slots to be spent on Lores. This would mean the second ability comes at 6th level which maybe might warrant beefing it up a bit?

Also, any further ideas for powers relating to any of the Lores would be appreciated - most of the ones right now are very bland spell-based improvements, but that's more caution and perhaps a lack of imagination on my end.

12

I tend to agree with Bobloblah - last campaign the party had 2-3 casters with Black Lore, and none of them ever suceeded at turning anything.

13

Yeah, that hits on a bunch of stuff I'm feeling. I think the need to wait to 6th level if the Lores require Class Proficiencies is too long, and makes them much too weak. On the other hand, giving them all of the above at 1st level is a bit strong, but forcing the use of the Class Proficiency to do it makes up for that. It does create more homogeneity amongst your Mages, though.

As for spell selection, I think the trouble is that many of your lists have one obvious autopick (e.g., Sleep, Charm Person, etc.). Selecting a single spell from most of the lists isn't much of a choice, really. I think a way to balance it is to potentially force all initial spell selections to be from the list, either selected or random. I'd probably redo the lists, too. If I was trying to stick with your theming, I might go something like this:

Lore of Light = random spells, or Detect Magic, Light, Protection from Evil, Read Magic

Lore of Fire & Ice = Magic Missile, Burning Hands, Slipperiness

Lore of Metal = Floating Disc, Hold Portal, Magic Rope, Sharpness

Lore of Clouds = Sleep, Wall of Smoke

Lore of Shadows = Charm Person, Magic Mouth, Ventriloquism

Lore of Beasts = Summon Berserkers, Unseen Servant

Lore of Death = Darkness, Choking Grip, Protection from Good

Lore of Transformation = Chameleon, Jump, Silent Step, Spider Climb

I think it's still not perfect, but I tried to break up the best spells to different lores, and tried to strengthen those that were obviously weaker. Transformation and Metal are still particularly weak, I think (or at least very utility focused).

 

14

This is really helpful feedback. One issue honestly that can be tough is that a beginning spellcaster could have potentially 4 spells in the repetoire (at 18 INT), which means some of the lists might have to be expanded or overlap. Some of the overlap between spell lists was somewhat intentional since I was considering alignment/organizational restrictions for some of the Lores; this lets certain spells not be monopolized completely (although perhaps a monopoly on some spells by particular magical orders would be interesting).

I originally intended the Lores of Fire, Ice, and Storms to be separate choices (I rolled them into one entry for brevity), as well but combining it the way you have may not be a bad idea; a player could select it, roll up the spells, and then have the starting spells be fire/ice/lightning versions depending on the element selected.

In terms of second tier perks, I think you're correct - level 6 is a pretty long ways away. I think a more useful set of second tier perks might be something less stat-oriented, like for example giving Lore of Shadows the ability to Hide in Shadows at the second tier of the proficiency. Another option might just simply to let the second level of the proficiency count as a level in another proficiency, like having Lore of Metal Lv. 2 grant Magical Engineering, which messes less with the balance since many of the Lores strongly suggest certain proficiency picks.

Finally, it might be worthwhile to leave a "Lore-less" start option, where no bonuses are given and all spells are randomly rolled, but the player is allowed to re-roll a spell result. Maybe something like that?

15

One thing pointed out to me by a blog post over at Crowbar & Brick is that Magic Users in ACKS actually get slightly the short end of the stick in comparison to some Player's Companion classes. Namely the PC Enchantress trades off the two-handed fighting style for a selection of custom powers. This gave me an idea for re-structuring my Lore idea along different lines, using the "custom power at 1st level" option.

LORES
A Magic-User may select a Lore when created, representing specialized study in a particular field of magic. Selecting a lore means that the Magic User may not fight with weapons in the two-handed style (staffs will roll d4 for damage).

The first spell is rolled randomly from the Lore list; additional spells for higher Intelligence are rolled as normal. In addition, each Lore grants a bonus custom power.

Lore of the Old Ones:
starting spells: Read Languages, Detect Magic
bonus: as Loremastery or Soothsaying

Lore of Light
starting spells: Detect Magic, Light, Protection from Evil, Read Languages
bonus: +2 saves vs. Free/chaotic magic along with effects of Sensing Power

Lore of the Elements
starting spells: Magic Missile, Burning Hands, Slipperiness
bonus: as Elementalism

Lore of Metal
starting spells: Floating Disc, Hold Portal, Magic Rope, Sharpness
bonus: as either Magical Engineering or Familiar

Lore of Clouds
starting spells: Sleep, Wall of Smoke

bonus: Cloudwalk (clouds the character creates do not block his vision or affect caster with deleterious effects. Caster surprises foes when emerging from a cloud of his making.)

Lore of Shadows
starting spells: Chameleon, Silent Step, Ventriloquism
bonus: Shadowstep (caster may hide in shadows as thief of half level)

Lore of Beasts
starting spells: Summon Berserkers, Unseen Servant
bonus: Augmented Summoning (+1hp per hit die for summoned creatures),

Lore of Death
starting spells: Darkness, Choking Grip, Protection from Good
bonus: as Black Lore of Zahar

Lore of Transformation
starting spells: Charm Person, Magic Mouth, Jump, Spider Climb
bonus: as Transmogrification

Any thoughts on this variant? I've tried to trim away some of the more boring +/- powers to give some more uniqueness to each Lore, but perhaps subtlety is better. Lore of Light and Lore of Death are likely going to be alignment locked.