Political Division

I am trying to place political divisions in my game and I ran into a problem understanding part of the book.

1. If the kingdom is divided into 4 principalities, lets say, england, wales, scottland, and northern ireland. Wouldn't the king of england also be the prince of england, and the count of london county? Except when he passes the prince title to his son. 
2. The king isn't the prince, and his kid isn't prince. This is different than real life but what ever.

IF 1

But then he couldn't have 3 followers rule wales scottland and ireland, as well as 3-4 dukes in england.

One solution is "well his son is the prince, and has followers." but if he does not have a son that's a problem.

solution 2 is have a "seneschal, regent, hand of the king" who is the non-titled follower who carries down the next link in the chain for controlling your own titles.


The other thing I didn't understand about exactly this is, If I have a kingdom, with four principalities, do I calculate the size of capital by the whole kingdom, then each of 4 principalities with their own cities, even though, that would put 2 cities in england now, and then 4 dukes in each principality with a city of their own, giving london county 3 cities so far? or does the kingdom city count as the city for the principality as well, eg. the king of UK lives in london, which is the capital of the UK, and of england, and of london?

If you've ever played Crusader Kings II, there is the concept of a personal demense, the land that a ruler can reasonably personally profit from without distributing titles of nobility and vassalage.  In ACKs, this is the personal domain of the ruler, which is generally going to cap out at 16 6-mile civilized hexes, plus whatever the ruler can grow the city within their personal domain to.  Everything else is assumed to be folded up under the layers of vassalage beneath them.  If you get to the level of vassalage of Kingdom with principalities, the portions of the realm not under direct control of the ruler are going to be dramatically smaller.

Now, it's true in the past that the King of England is often also in possession of a principality and a duchy, but this doesn't have to be the case.  The aforementioned CK2 has a much more granular way of handling titles of nobility that determines when a ruler holds too many titles, but in ACKs you can still slightly achieve this through some additional rules on vassalage that have been added since the game came out.

The default assumption is that you'll have 4 henchmen, plus or minus your charisma bonus and a few other proficiencies.  These are to be reserved for the largest swaths of land you'll be parceling out.  Assuming you're a very charismatic ruler, you might have as many as 7 henchmen, and if you're the king of england you might use 3 of them for the principalities you do not personally control.  These princes presumably have dukes and counts and barons somewhere beneath them.  

But you are also a prince in addition to a king, which means that you have dukes beneath you just like your princes do. Perhaps these dukes will use up another 3 of your vassal slots, drawn from henchman who came along later in your adventuring career and maybe aren't quite as loyal, but still rather loyal.  

Finally, you have at most 1 space for a loyal vassal left, which as a Duke in addition to a prince and king, you might use for a count vassal.  However, you do not need to stop at 7, or possibly more because there are some proficiencies that will allow more.  If you wish to have more vassals than this, you can, but they are more limited.  I can't remember the rules off the top of my head, but it amounts to a -2 on loyalty and never giving a free monthly duty without first recieving a favor, which your loyal vassals would.

Even without an 18 charisma, you could make heavy use of these less loyal vassals to grow the number of direct reports you have, but it stands to reason that only the most charismatic and capable rulers of the eras will be able to manage the challenges of so many direct vassals.

To answer your last question: you should almost certainly assume that London counts for all of those cities being proscribed, although it stands to reason there are other, smaller cities in each case, but each of them is being passed on as a capital at a given layer in favor of london.

Which book do I find the rules that came out that handle it in more detail? 

I like the proficiency you spoke of more than saying "all kings have an 18 charisma" I am going to look that up. Do you know the name of it and which source it is in?
I think I would do it in a way where you use you most loyal people to be your own dukes, and the less loyal being other princes, since realistycally princes feel more entitled, and because they are further away.

Does it make any sense for a steward, seneschal, regent, prince-regent, to rule your dukes?


Which book do I find the rules that came out that handle it in more detail? 

I like the proficiency you spoke of more than saying "all kings have an 18 charisma" I am going to look that up. Do you know the name of it and which source it is in?


it's a combination of the recently revised domain rules which are in a recent axiom, and some house rules Alex proposed on the forums which may or may not be in the collected wisdom PDF if you're an Axioms patron.  Let me get you some more concrete page numbers/links.

Ok, the revised domain rulership rules are actually publicly available on the patreon (ie: not a subscriber's only post) so I don't mind reproducing them here:

> Non-Henchman Vassals
> Rather than assigning multiple vassal domains to a henchmen who then has to sub-assign the vassal domain to his own henchmen, a ruler may assign vassal domains to non-henchmen. These may be NPC adventurers, mercenary commanders, specialists, etc.
> Non-henchmen rulers have a base loyalty of -2 instead of 0. If the non-henchman vassal’s domain is outside the range of trade of his ruler’s largest urban settlement, a non-henchman’s base loyalty is -4. (See ACKS, p. 233 for details on range of trade.)
> During any month, a non-henchman vassal can only be safely asked to perform one duty for each favor given (there is no “free” duty, as there is with a henchman). If the ruler demands duties in excess of this total, the non-henchman vassal’s loyalty must be checked on the Henchman Loyalty table for each extra duty.

You'll notice this distinction is between Henchman and non-henchman vassals.  Because of this, the Leadership proficiency (ACKs core, pg 61) that increases the number of henchman you can control by 1 increases the number of more loyal vassals you can keep. The understanding seems to be that a ruler eager to keep their kingdom flat can have as many non-henchman vassals as they need. There are some more detailed rules hiding out on the forums, but they predate the rules I've copied above, and IIRC the most important things they were trying to accomplish are covered here.

You generally want your most loyal followers to be your highest ranking vassals.  It means they control more land and more troops than the less loyal, which in ACKs also makes them more powerful individually.  If a disloyal non-henchman prince, far from your largest urban settlement, suddenly decides to become an independant principality, he takes all the dukes and lower vassals with him.

I found the thread thanks to the collected wisdom PDF:


Be warned, reading this advanced of a chapter from the Macrinomicon requires a saving throw to avoid 1d4 sanity damage. If you are reduced to 0 sanity you begin developing increasingly fractal and interlocking tabletop RPG subsystems until you starve to death several days later.

The revised strongold rules are a free offering at the Patreon:


The non-vassal henchman are probably more historically accurate for the matter of keeping the Scots and Irish under one's rule.

/he says, with a glance at his Scot-Irish wife...