I know her more well-known ‘Deed of Paksenarrion’ compliation is on the list, but I read Elizabeth Moon’s ‘A Legacy of Honour’, about a peasant rebellion against the magic-using nobility with the the main character establishing a hideout and carving out his domain. I don’t think the book’s great but I immediately thought of ACKS (and Dungeonista!).
Anyone got any recommendations ?
Not fantasy, but: Wolf Hall. You definitely see the evolution of a subdomain tracking the expanding power of a king.
Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson. Noble houses in conflict, hideouts and hijinks, empire-level machinations. Great book, awesome trilogy.
In the “neither a fantasy nor a novel” category, Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army. Dry reading, but it really lays down what it takes to move an army across the world. Worth it for Appendix 5 alone - statistical tables like “The Army’s Grain Requirements for One Day” and “Alexander’s March Rates.”
Hmm. Is Mark Smylie’s ARTESIA comic series on the reading list? It ought to be.
Joel Rosenberg’s Companions of the Flame series involves an adventuring party carving out an domain in a fantasy world against competition from the established order. Don’t remember if we listed that or not. I will read these others ASAP!
Mary Renault’s Theseus books (The King Must Die and the Bull from The Sea) are an excellent example of an adventuring ruler. Theseus alternates from ruling to going off on long adventuring “sessions” especially in the latter book.
Bernard Cornwell’s Warlord series about post-Roman Arthur also are pretty inspirational in a similar vein.
Both sets of books, though, are more examples of “borderline” historical fiction where “magic” and “supernatural mysteries” may or may not exist than they are straight fantasy.
Not Fantasy but thinking about a domain’s Morale and Ego, as well as the machinations of church, commerce and state, I recommend ‘Q’ by Luther Blissett, a historical thriller of medieval spies, revolutionaries and heretical hijinks. Yeh, it ain’t Quag Keep.
No Fritz Leiber on the list at all? You’ve got Michael Chabon’s (very good) Leiber pastiche, Gentlemen of the Road, but no Leiber? Wow.
A guiding principle at one point was to make this a supplementary list - stuff that wasn’t on the original B/X or AD&D lists. If that isn’t true any more then yes we need the inventor of the thieves’ guild!
That would make a bit more sense, but I see Three Hearts and Three Lions on there. Surely that was in Appendix N?
I can’t speak for the other designers, but I personally haven’t much read Fritz Leiber, so I can’t in good conscience recommend him to others. I’m sure he’s exceptional, but he has only had an indirect influence on me, i.e. through his influence on others who influenced me. On the other hand, I have read virtually everything by Poul Anderson (such as Three Hearts and Three Lions) about four times.
Would y’all rather see the list assume that you know the Appendix N entries and present only add-ons, or be self-standing?
If the former, then we should add David Chandler’s Den of Thieves; if the latter, then we’ll also want Leiber’s Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser series. I am willing to attest that drinking from the D&D well involves getting a heavy dose of his inspiration, which can be usefully refreshed by going to the source!
Joe Abercrombie - Best Served Cold - The story of what happens when the King decides the Adventuring Party (actually, Mercenary group) is a threat to his power.
and I’d rather the list be self-standing. ACKs needs to stand on its own two feet, not be propped up by history (imo).
Also - are you being deliberately anachronistic by only including books? Are there no films, tv series, comics, or computer games that fit the bill for inspirational sources?
Best Served Cold - yes, good choice James, also because of the wide repercussions of a personal quest, a vendetta causing the systematic unravelling of a domain’s powerbase.
I agree about the self-standing list being preferable.
Thanks Sean, it’s a deeply grim book, but it’s fantastic. ‘The Heroes’ is also very good, but it’s much more intimate in scale. An interesting look at how a battle gets fought though.
Oh, another thought - Given that I saw somewhere on the forums that the historical period of the ‘military tactics’ is Napoleaonic, you could reference some stuff talking about that era. Whilst it might be jarring to list Sharpe in the appendix of a fantasy game, it’s not a bad look at characters progression from 1st to, say 10th level, and the different tactical choices available to an army of that era. I honestly don’t think it’d work to list these novels, but it was a thought that pricked my mind.
Joe Abercrombie - Best Served Cold - The story of what happens when the King decides the Adventuring Party (actually, Mercenary group) is a threat to his power.
APM: I’m actually reading that book now. I had to put the book down when the heroine woke up to find out how brutally disfigured she was, though. It was really hard to take.
Also - are you being deliberately anachronistic by only including books? Are there no films, tv series, comics, or computer games that fit the bill for inspirational sources?
APM: My personal reference source is books but Asheron’s Call, Morrwind, and Oblivion were very influential on me, as were the movies Conan the Barbarian and Dragonslayer.
Alex - yeah, it’s really really harsh. The author pulls no punches. But - it’s worth it for what follows, in my opinion.
Yeah, I thought I was pretty inured to such things from reading a lot of George R.R. Martin, but, wow…harsh.
I’ve just started Game of Thrones…100 pages in I was wondering if I wanted to continue, what with the incest, child (attempted) murder, rape (off screen, historical), paedophilia (by modern sensibilities) and forced child marriage… it’s been bugging me all day. Still, 100 pages further on it’s gotten better, a bit. I’m expecting it to get worse again though :s
Strangely none of that bothered me as much as the physical disfigurement in the opening of “Best Served Cold.” I get really freaked out by “body horror”!
GRRM is brutal, too, though. If you’re just starting…it only gets worse.