Size requirements for Library and Workshop?

I was wondering if anyone knew how big the two has to be for a wizard to use? Is it based on costs or what? Kind of want to make a mobile version of them but honestly depends on the answer.

Edit: to clarify I mean the dimensions in feet and the weight in stone

I've been wondering how big a mage's library and workshop need to be, as well; The core rulebook only specifies costs, not sizes.

As a houserule, I've been assuming that a mage's library counts as being composed of the "rare books" trade good. Rare books weigh 3 stone per 1,000 gp of value, which means a bare bones library suitable for researching 1st level spells weighs at least 12 stone, and a legendary library that grants a +3 bonus to researching the most powerful ritual spells could weigh as much as 150 stone. Based on the warehousing guidelines estimated in another thread, this means that even the legendary research library of a Zaharan sorceror-king could be crammed into a peasant's hut with room to spare.

For workshops, I've been assuming that they're similar in dimensions to a normal craftsman's workshop, but include much more expensive tools and instruments - which means I can use the size of the craftsmans's workshop described in the player's companion as a guideline: 20 ft by 20 ft when unpacked. Unfortunately, the player's companion doesn't specify how much a workshop weighs when packed up for travel, so my dream of using a mobile workshop to enchant dungeon features remains a fantasy...


Workshops are in campaigns. 64 stone. But those are good starting points.

I use the same basic parameters as GMJoe in my campaign. The library can easily be small enough that I let it take up one wall of the workshop.

In a recent campaign, my mage created his own device: a book of holding. Essentially, it's a book crossed with a bag of holding, capable of easily holding an entire library, so he can research spells on the go. You could easily do the same with a lab, making it like a folding boat or similar. That way, weight doesn't really play a part. Granted, it's not cheap, and requires that you're level 9 at least; or, really super not-cheap, and requires you have another mage make it for you.

Great assessment and analysis, GMJoe et. al.

Approaching this from a top-down historical point of view: The Great Library of Alexandria was estimated at 40,000 to 400,000 scrolls. Let's assume a small number of big, heavy, valuable scrolls for simplicity. If we assume 40,000 scrolls at 3 stone per scroll (the weight of a Torah scroll) that's a library worth 40,000,000gp - the library of all libraries! (6,000 talents in the ancient world. Seems reasonable). The library would weigh 120,000 stone.

From my prior thread, assume you need 1 cubic foot per 3 stone of trade goods. That means we need 40,000 cubic feet of storage. Assume that, for each story of a building, each 10' x 10' square allows for 250 cubic feet of storage - that is 7' x 7' of goods piled 5' high. So we would need (40,000/250) 160 10'x10' squares. That suggests a library that measures 125' by 125'.

According to Wikipedia, "the exact layout of the library is not known, but ancient sources describe the Library of Alexandria as comprising a collection of scrolls, Greek columns, a peripatos walk, a room for shared dining, a reading room, meeting rooms, gardens, and lecture halls, creating a model for the modern university campus. The library itself is known to have had an acquisitions department (possibly built near the stacks, or for utility closer to the harbor) and a cataloguing department. A hall contained shelves for the collections of papyrus scrolls known as bibliothekai (βιβλιοθῆκαι). According to popular description, an inscription above the shelves read: The place of the cure of the soul. The library was but one part of the Musaeum of Alexandria, which functioned as a sort of research institute. In addition to the library, the Musaeum included rooms for the study of astronomy, anatomy, and even a zoo containing exotic animals."

While 125' x 125'  seems too small for the whole of the Museum and Library, it seems like a reasonable size for the scroll collection - a room that size filled with scrolls would seem the wonder of the world to an ancient scholar. So I think the basic analysis here makes sense. 

If you'd like the libraries to be bigger, you could assume that for every rare book there are some number of more common books which serve as commentaries, glosses, and notes on the rare books. That was actually very common in the ancient and medieval world. It's common today as well, I suppose, too, maybe even more common. The LA Public Library has 16,000 rare books in a collection of 6 million so that is 500 common books per rare book.





Also, 125'x125' describes a weird "scroll warehouse" where the scrolls are piled in big cubes with narrow walkways between the cubes. Something closer to what we think of as an actual library (easily accessible shelves) would be far less space efficient.

I dunno, I remember "The stacks" in college being pretty tightly packed, especially the ones where you had to hit the button to slide the shelves so there was actually a hallway.  I imagine a few minor magic spells could duplicate such an effect :-P

I did the math on it, if the scrolls were pilled up 10 foot tall, 2.5 feet of shelf space on each side of a 10 foot square, thus shelves, the math is the same. I had been thinking the same as you until I did that. Double the height and cut out the middle of the square.

I think I found a problem with the core assumption. My books, which are the standard 11x8x1-2 of standard game books are packed on 6 shelves that are 3 foot long 1 foot tall, and 1 foot thick. That would indicate 54 stone of books, about 765 lbs, 342kg, I have a lot of books sure, but I don't have a literal tonne of books. I think the stone for trade good assumes something heavier than paper. Now in settings that use books as scrolls I don't know the weight of those, but I imagine the 3 stone torrah is quite a bit larger than 1cubic foot. I would say books are more like, 1 stone per cubic foot.


"What is the ACKS communty like?
"Well, they have figured out the cubic footage required to have a library of Torahs." 



"What is the ACKS communty like?
"Well, they have figured out the cubic footage required to have a library of Torahs." 



"Well, much like most online tabletop RPG communities, they're awash in arguments focused on the very specific minutiea of what words were used when. Unlike most online tabletop communities, these arguments are about the actual game."

"Sounds like a nice bunch"

True, true. There's no hatorade here. You guys are awesome.