What version should I buy?

First off, I haven’t had any response to my question about purchasing a printed Dwimmermount book in another thread. Do Autarch proprietors read the forums?

Here’s my question:

I’m going to play Dwimmermount using a game system that is not LL or ACKS. Which version of Dwimmermount should I buy? Are they exactly the same except for rules interpretations? If not, is one getting better reviews than the other?

Secondly, where can I buy a printed version of Dwimmermount? The only place I can find it in the whole world is Leisure Games in England. Is it still going to Amazon?


anyone with their name in purple is either a member of Autarch (or was at one time) or is an admin of the website itself.

The creator of the game does frequent these forums, but the dwimmermount release was plagued with complications, so he may have had trouble getting you a good answer.

As for which version is better, it depends on your goals with the adventure itself. If you’re interested in greater detail for the region immediately surrounding dwimmermount, I believe the ACKs version will have more of what you’re looking for. I haven’t played LL, but I believe it might be slightly easier to convert to another old-school D&D clone, at a minimum i think it has descending AC which many of them employ.

Thanks, Jared!

What I’m wondering is whether the content of the books are very different. Are there the same things in every room? Are room contents described differently in one than the other? Is there a different focus in each book?

If the ACKS version has more information on the areas surrounding Dwimmermount, and both are 400 pages, then what is the ACKS version foregoing to add that description?

The ACKS PDF is 428 pages (including covers). The “final proof” for LL is 412 pages, including apparently a front but not back cover? So there’s maybe 4% more in the ACKS version.

The text of page 229 in the LL final proof is essentially identical to the text of page 235 in the ACKS version.

Regarding print, unfortunately Dwimmermount is a magnificent physical brick of a product that will go out of print from time to time. I’d compare it to a mega board game, or something like the Advanced Squad Leader rulebook. Of course it’s desirable that one be available when ever and where ever a customer might be found. The reality of dropping $20,000 for a pallet of product, plus shipping means periods of being out of print. If you see one, buy it!

Print-on-demand helps, but is not a cure-all. The book is still a brick, and a challenge to the spine of any printing process. Autarch can do its best to support POD, but it’s challenging to setup and monitor that a given POD vendor is producing a quality brick of a product at a price that won’t outrage buyers. Multiple POD vendors are multiple sources of challenges (and some POD vendors have multiple sites which somehow produce product of varying quality between sites of the same vendor).

Whenever there is choice between keeping Dwimmermount in print and producing new product, I hope for new product. Hopefully, new product leads to a growing customer base, which may allow Autarch to more easily drop that $20,000 for a new pallet of Dwimmermount going forward.

I know that doesn’t help you right now, but I’m pretty sure Autarch would like to have you as a customer :slight_smile:

For what it’s worth, I bought Dwimmermount PoD off drivethrurpg and have no complaints about the quality.

I don’t see that as an option on DrivethruRPG at the moment. Am I missing something?

It appears to no longer be available. Not sure what the deal is; I thought it was PoD, maybe it wasn’t and they just had books?

I dunno. I can offer nothing useful, apparently.

Okay, good to know I’m not crazy! Thanks for the input.

I believe I heard it’s going to be available again in hardcopy soon.

Before I take the plunge : further development will probably be in ACKS first and LL second, right?

I don't want to end up with books for different systems:-)



P.S. I already have LL but this might be a good excuse to get ACKS as wel.

The ACKS version is slightly more robust as it has rules for the ACKS-type stuff that LL does not.

The LL version is balanced for a game that has level advancement up to 20 and spells up to level 9, while the ACKS version is balanced for a game that has level advancement up to 14 and spells up to level 6.

So there are pros and cons to each that are worth considering if you're adapting it.

What I mean is, obviously the ACKS version! :P

and hey, as long as you're in the market... perhaps you'd like some monster lairs to populate the countryside with? Well boy is there a kickstarter for you!

Yup, saw the kickstarter. Still thinking about it:-)

And thanks on that level info. Didn't know that difference. It does make the ACKS version a bit more attractive as higher levels start suffering from overthetopness(?).


Thanks. This will very likely be something I'll be giving myself for Christmas.

Just a note : I don't see the ACKS printed version on rpgnow, just the LL version.

Not that NobleKnight is not a good alternative. Their international shipping is pretty nice, i just need to come up with a big order.